GOOGLE TALKS - MATTHEW HENDERSHOT

"It's a fear of being steamrolled by the momentum of the world and not being on the crest of that wave, but being crushed by it." - Matt Hendershot, Talks at Google, The End Men, Brave New Weed podcast

PREVIEW:

WATCH THE FULL INTERVIEW HERE

ON EPISODE 37:

Science touches on all the excitement leading up to the total solar eclipse that will happen on August 21. So many different scientific experiments will get underway on that day and Dustin and Jeff talk about a few of them. The idea of being focused and trying not to be overwhelmed by the weight of the world is on What Fuels You this week. Finally, the Grind It Out campaign is still producing amazing content and details about this year's runDEAD event are revealed.

ABOUT MATTHEW HENDERSHOT:

Matthew Hendershot owns his own production company and runs a lot of the Talks at Google events. Death Wish Coffee then did their very own Talks at Google, which you can watch here. Plus he is an accomplished musician and plays guitar and sings in his rock band The End Men, who are currently recording their fifth album and getting ready for their European tour. Also, he co-hosts and produces the Brave New Weed podcast which discusses the scientific and societal ramifications of marijuana.

TRANSCRIPT:

Dustin: Okay, let me start this off. Has anybody ever told you you sound like Brad Pitt from Inglourious Basterds.

Matt: No.

Dustin: I'm picturing you in Italy being like Bon journo.

Matt: Yeah, well. We do that.

Dustin: [Foreign Language 00:00:17]

Matt: [crosstalk 00:00:24] Get on the radio.

Jeff: You do have a little bit of that grit to you though.

Matt: [Italian 00:00:30]

Jeff: All right.

Dustin: A lot of something.

Jeff: I love it.

Matt: It's better accent.

Dustin: Oh, okay.

Matt: Than that.

Dustin: That's awesome.

Jeff: I think you should just stick to your guns and go with gruff Italian.

Matt: Bon journo.

Jeff: There you go. Oh man. Thanks for joining us today and the first thing we want to talk about is you have quite an extensive background in sound and sound production. Not only being a musician, you have education in it and you currently for a company that works with one of the biggest companies in the world, correct?

Matt: Well, it's my company.

Jeff: Your company.

Matt: Yeah, I mean in as much as one can set up your own company and run your own company. Yeah, I have an audio and video production company and I work with Google and we work together to produce the Talks at Google video series.

Jeff: Now, I've caught a little bit of this with the talks at Google. What exactly where did this kind of stem from? Were you part of it from the get go or did you kind of [crosstalk 00:01:40]?

Matt: Oh no. The Talks program has been active for a long time. It's loosely modeled after ... Not modeled after because it was kind of concurrent with ... It gets a lot of external comparison to the TED Talks, which a lot of people are familiar with, but basically Google with the intention of treating their employees as good as they possibly can, created the Talks program, which is they bring in guest speakers and they speak for about an hour as an employee perk. They say you guys can come and get some information shared and all that and at some point somebody said, "You know, if we're gonna bring all these people in, we should start recording it and publishing it for the world to see," which is very much in line with Google's philosophy too.

Jeff: Yeah.

Matt: Share information and be open about that. So, we started producing, recording them and I got involved editing them and making them better and we just roll from there.

Jeff: So, it was ... The initial idea was as a perk for Googlers. That's what they're called, right? Googlers?

Matt: Googler.

Jeff: Googlers, yes. It was, basically, in house, in company, like if you work at Google you can come to this talk.

Matt: Yeah. A lot of the times it's around lunch. So, they encourage you to go grab some food and then come in. Then instead of just sitting at your desk and stare at a screen, it's be in a room with other people and here somebody share an interesting or thoughtful idea.

Dustin: That's really cool.

Jeff: And it's really awesome now that they're being produced and put out because Google as a company, is so large, but you yourself have even been able to produce and talk to some really interesting people.

Matt: Oh, yeah. Absolutely.

Jeff: Can you name a couple of them that you've talked to recently?

Matt: Well ...

Dustin: What was the dude with the mustache?

Matt: Tom Selleck. Or some people were confused and they thought it was my father. They were like, "Is this your dad?" And I was like, "No, that's not my dad. That's Magnum P.I."

Jeff: That's awesome.

Dustin: Thank you, but that's Tom Selleck.

Matt: Gator.

Jeff: And what did Tom come in for?

Matt: He ... So, Tom is entering like what is the eighth season of Blue Bloods on CBS, which is a hugely successful show and, in fact, it came up in the conversation. So, he came on to discuss Blue Bloods and what they're doing with the show and CBS and all that stuff and actually, I think, in the middle of this season, they'll roll over more episodes than Magnum P.I. So, he's about to eclipse his own record for-

Jeff: Oh wow. And Magnum P.I. was out for a long time.

Matt: Yes. Like eight seasons. Eight seasons of Magnum P.I. Over, I want to say like over 150 shows. And they're gonna have their 150th Blue Bloods this year as well.

Jeff: Wow, that's cool. Is it all from the entertainment industry or do you guys-

Matt: Oh, absolutely not.

Jeff: Like who ... What other?

Matt: The core of it for the longest time has always been authors like people who have new books out that want to come in, talk about the book, share the idea, the concept of the book and we've had some brilliant people. Mark Z. Danielewski came in to talk about the Familiar. That was a personal favorite of mine because I'm a big House of Leaves fan. [crosstalk 00:04:40]

Dustin: That's Alexis's ...

Matt: So that kind of stuff. Al Franken was just recently in, obviously, the senator. Al franken ... But it ranges from people who are economics professors, genius and authors in that regard, scientists. We just had people come in and talk about AI and machine learning.

Dustin: Oh, that's scary stuff.

Matt: Aw, man. It's so cool-

Jeff: We talk about that sometimes on this podcast actually.

Dustin: Scares me so much.

Matt: And they're just, like, stuff's really reaching out there into capabilities and technology-

Dustin: Can you go into that a little?

Matt: I mean not so much into that I'd just be repeating what I heard from them to say.

Dustin: Aren't we all?

Matt: Yeah. I mean I don't know what, in any regard, what Google is up to in that.

Dustin: You can't talk about that.

Matt: I wouldn't even know where to begin to talk about that.

Jeff: Well, that's really ... It's such a cool thing to put out into the world. Like, you said a [inaudible 00:05:42] of Google. What are some of ... You run your own company and you're coming in and helping them out. Is that a culture shock kind of thing, whereas do you get to play with the best toys is basically where this question is going or?

Matt: Yeah.

Jeff: I picture Google having the best of everything.

Matt: Sure.

Jeff: Yeah?

Matt: We're very well treated. We're very well taken care of. The philosophy of the company creates a great environment. They want people to be happy. They want them to be taken care of, well fed. Good food is a very big deal. It's just a matter of, hey, we have the ability. And it's cool because they empower us, you know, the people who are working on the team to produce the talks. They really empower us to just continue to work to make it better. There's no finish line. There's no goal post. It's just like, hey, here you go. Here's your means. Please do what you guys can figure out and just keep on going.
So, when we talk to more people and, you know, we meet people who run publicists for Broadway shows and we bring in a Broadway show and then they want to bring in more Broadway shows. So, we're able to bring more Broadway shows. Entertainment, the same thing. Science and technology, economics, and race, and culture, and art, and all of these different categories of people. Like anything, the more you do, the more it allows you to do. So, we did in New York something like 800 talks.

Jeff: Wow.

Matt: No. That's I'm sorry. That's totally misspoken. I think we did in New York, like 150 and I think all-

Dustin: That's not even close to 800.

Matt: Yeah, no. I think all the-

Dustin: What the hell, Matt?

Matt: I think all of the program produced something like 800-

Dustin: Table flip.

Matt: [crosstalk 00:07:40]

Jeff: Wow, that's still impressive. And you put up ... Does every single one go out to the public?

Matt: There are some that don't.

Dustin: Is that for specific reasons?

Matt: It's for a myriad of different reasons. A lot of the times you get hung up on things like you can't really endorse certain things that can't be backed up or if somebody comes on and starts giving a bunch of financial advise that's a very ... You gotta be careful about putting that stuff out there. The program is clearly stated that guests are speaking their own mind and their own opinion and it's not the opinion of Google and everything like that, but you don't want to run into a mistake where somebody says, "Oh, I saw they said that I should buy this stock." So you kind of avoid that stuff.

Dustin: Do you try to stay out of like ... Do you stay out of or stay into the political side of things?

Matt: There's not a lot of politics in the terms of advocacy, which is important. Because again we don't want to be advocating. We don't want to tell people ... You don't want to tell people what to think. You don't tell people what to do. You're just allowing a platform for people to share an idea and then hopefully people will take that idea and do with it what they want. So, it's more about information than it is about opinion and advice.

Jeff: Right, that's really neat. So, you come in to help them produce an amazing product video and audio. When does it come to the point where they actually asked you to be on camera because you've actually been now the moderator for some of these talks?

Matt: Sure. The program internally is operated by a very small team of full time people and then everything else outside of that is volunteers. A big part of the volunteer process and a big part of the draw for volunteers is that there's now set roles. There's no official moderator for the program. It's like if you put in the work and you put in the effort, you can bring somebody in. You can have that kind of thing.

Dustin: Oh, that's kind of cool.

Matt: So, yeah. We allow ... We. I don't say we. They allow for people to work on planning this stuff and then if you want to moderate, you moderate. I think when it first came up for me to do a moderation at all, it was a matter of it needed to be done and maybe the host didn't care to do it or whatever that might be and I have a long background in talking to people, in interviewing people, and in being on stage and conducting those sorts of things. So, it was a matter of, "Guys, I can do this, if you want me to do it." So, I did.

Dustin: I mean that's pretty open. Do they run into issues with somebody who may not be that great of an interviewer up there on stage drowning?

Matt: It happens, but you ... We do everything we can with volunteers to make them feel comfortable. To make them feel enabled. We've produced educational material to say, hey, if you're gonna moderate, here's a best practices list. Those sorts of things. So, it's really about empowering employees, getting people involved, and getting them trained up and making them feel comfortable. We wouldn't want anybody to feel uncomfortable on stage or anything like that. But none of that's really my purview. I don't get to decide those things. I show up and I contribute as much as I can.

Jeff: That's really ...It's just really interesting. I love hearing about stuff like that. Especially, from a company that, you know, face value, it's just like I'm gonna go Google that and then that's as far as I think about with Google sometimes.

Dustin: It's nice to see this monolith of a company, not be a big fricken jerk. Like all the other monolith companies, you know?

Jeff: That's true.

Matt: It's a big part of being Google. You gotta be google-y. Do no evil.

Dustin: They set a gold standard for treating employees and I think that's amazing for a company that's that big and it's just we don't really see a lot of that.

Matt: Sure, it goes back to the philosophies of how do you motivate people and for the longest time corporate ideal and philosophy was based around the dangling carrot and the pointed stick. We're gonna dangle a carrot in front of you to make you move because you want the carrot. If you don't want the carrot, we'll just poke you with a stick. Keep going. Studies have shown that that's backwards and it doesn't work for people. It doesn't inspire people and when you remove all that and say, "Look, you're free. We want you to do this role, this function. We want to empower you to do this function and you're free to go and do it."
You would think or the common knowledge, the common like naysayer knowledge is that it would demotivate people. Like, "Ah, if I don't have to do anything and I can just screw off all day, I'll just screw off all day." But it's actually got the opposite effect. When nobody's lording over you and when nobody's threatening you with the stick or trying to encourage you with the carrot. You are left to your own motivational [crosstalk 00:12:24]. And you're like, "Man, I want to do this. I want to go create that. I want to improve this portion of it or I want to work on trying to fix a systemic problem." I mean this is the same kind of thing you've been going through with building this studio. If there's no end line, if there's no finish line, then it's like, "Wow, I can make this better and I can do that better. I can do more."

Dustin: There's nobody looking over our shoulders telling ... See, the thing is if somebody's telling you what to do and you do it. You feel like you did it for them, but if somebody's like figure this out. You figure it out for yourself and like you said, self motivated. You feel way more accomplished. You're like, "I did this. I made this happen and I made this company better myself."

Matt: There's also no stop. Right? So, if somebody has dictated out, "I need you to accomplish X." Then you work and you accomplish X and you're like, "Okay. Check that box. I'm done." I don't have to work anymore. I don't have to, I'm finished. If it's like ... if that line is not there, it removes the ability to just do the bare minimum because then you can always just do a little bit more of this, a little bit more of that. I think that's where people get burned out in regular jobs is like, you have a set list of obligations. So, you just show up and eventually you're just ticking the boxes. Right? So, when you remove the boxes to tick, all of a sudden it's like, "I'm free to do things." And things I enjoy and things that are cool.

Jeff: It's an incredible way to work. I've never worked for a company like that until working for Deathwish and it's ... You notice it immediately that more gets produced, more gets done because we don't have that stick poking. And it's incredible. Again, that's why a company like Google is also something that is incredible like that. Now this is in New York city? This is the campus in New York City?

Matt: Yeah, I work in the Manhattan campus.

Jeff: How large is that?

Matt: There are three buildings. It encompasses, the original New York City Port Authority building, which has a larger physical footprint than the Empire State Building because it's an entire city block. From Eight Avenue to Ninth Avenue from 15th street to 16th street. The entire block footprint is the Port Authority building. So, that's Google and then across the street is Google and then across the street again is more Google.

Jeff: Wow. I mean of course it's gotta be ginormous. To be able to do that.

Matt: [crosstalk 00:14:46] I think it's something in the neighborhood of 9,000 people, when you include secondary support staff and that kind of stuff.

Jeff: And we're recording this a little bit early, but when this episode actually is gonna go out, we are gonna be lucky enough to actually go down and be on a Talk for Google.

Matt: Yeah, you guys are gonna do the Talks at Google event.

Jeff: Very excited. So, I mean, hopefully when this is released you'll also be able to check that as well.

Matt: I'm excited for that. I'm gonna moderate that event.

Jeff: Yeah, yeah. You get to moderate.

Matt: So, we'll be back doing this exact same thing. Just in a different place.

Jeff: Yeah, we'll be able to come down and you said we get to see the campus and tour around a little bit. I'm very, very excited.

Matt: Absolutely, we'll show you some fun stuff.

Jeff: Super interested in all that kind of stuff. You were talking about we might even get to play like Google Earth or something, right?

Matt: Yeah. You can play Giant PACMAN.

Jeff: Giant PACMAN. I'm so excited. 

Matt: Yeah, we'll show it to you.

Dustin: That's awesome.

Jeff: That's gonna be a lot of fun. Earlier you brought up how you weren't scared when you were started to Google on camera because you're very used to being in front of an audience, be in front of a microphone, and that kind of stuff. That is because you sing and play in a band.

Matt: Yeah, I do that as well.

Jeff: The End Men one of our [crosstalk 00:16:01]

Dustin: That's how we met.

Jeff: That's how we met.

Matt: That's how we know each other.

Jeff: I was lost in Utica NY desperately looking at a map and you came like my knight in shining armor.

Dustin: "Hey, guys. Need some help?"

Matt: Ah, you guys are lost as shit. Oh man, you're never gonna get there. What that way? Don't go that way. Follow us.

Jeff: We've been together ever since, but, I mean, that was an older band that Dustin and I were in. But you guys are in the same band, the End Men. Let's talk a little bit about your band because I think that it's incredible to talk to someone who is doing the workload that you're doing and then is also doing the workload of a band that has a record label. You don't have that.

Matt: Well, through-

Jeff: Don't be so modest.

Matt: It's like ... Right. We don't ... It's a completely DIY effort. Livia Ranalli who is off camera over here is a huge integral part of that, especially, right now because the Google work and the TV show and all these other fun things that are going on, unfortunately, pull my attention in many direction. So, Liv has done an amazing job of really stepping up. She, for years, has organized our European tours.

Jeff: Which how many have you done? How many European tours have you done now?

Matt: What is it? It'll be ... This'll be number seven.

Dustin: Wow.

Jeff: Now see, again, this is something ... We've gotten the privilege to talk to some huge rockstars on this podcast already, but I mean, like someone like Richard Fortus from Guns N' Roses, you know, toured the world a million times, but he's in Guns N' Roses. You know, I mean, they have all this backing and tour support and all this kind of stuff to be able to do that. You guys-

Matt: Yeah, but they don't have a Livia. That's what I've got is I have a Livia.

Jeff: But, that's what I mean is that like-

Matt: Livia's get shit done. That's just the truth of it.

Jeff: It's super impressive because even for a band that is do it yourself to go and book a single European tour is in giant effort and you guys are now about to bark on your seventh time over there. I always ask this question and I'm sure that I will get the same kind of answer, but is it better to play in Europe than it is in the States?

Matt: It's ... I don't want to say that it's better, but it's better.

Jeff: There you go because you're not gonna be the first one who said it.

Matt: Yeah, I mean, you don't want to do that because we've toured in the United States and had some amazing times. Like, one of the comments that always gets made is like when your faith in humanity begins to wane, go on tour.

Jeff: Really?

Matt: Yeah, because you get out on the road and you realize that there are people everywhere in the world that are just awesome. You know? You find those people when you're out. You really take those risks and put yourself out there and you find the people that care. That are like awesome human beings. There are places all over this world now to where I know we can go and we're gonna be welcomed warmly and have friends and have support and that's more important than selling bunch of tickets or whatever. People will ... Bands who go on tour to make money, I understand. We have always looked at it as an opportunity to go around and make friends and connect with people-

Dustin: And see the world.

Matt: It's not collecting fans. It's collecting friends. We want-

Jeff: Collecting memories.

Matt: And family. You know? The more you grow and the more you do that. Maybe that's a function of the DIY aspect because I guess if a label snapped us up and was like, "Oh, you're gonna play these 3,000 things and-"

Dustin: Get on the bus. Play.

Matt: Get on the bus and go. That would probably change.

Dustin: Get off the bus. Play. Get back on the bus. Next city. Get off the bus. Play. Get on the bus. Next city. You know it probably takes the personal factor out of it. When you guys are feet on the ground running the show and booking the tour-

Jeff: That's what I mean. You guys are doing a lot of work for a band, which is now, you are four piece, correct? Right now?

Matt: It fluctuates between two and four people. We have four active members right now.

Jeff: But you started as just a two piece. Just the two of you.

Matt: We originally started as a three piece.

Jeff: Oh, okay. Originally started as a three piece.

Matt: Yeah, we had a harmonica player for quite a while.

Dustin: Yeah, when we met you.

Matt: Jason [Godby 00:20:14].

Jeff: And I know this story a little bit, but can you talk about the inception of the band because it is good origin story when it comes down to a rock band.

Matt: Yeah, sure. When Livia and I first met, she was playing in a different band. I was playing in a different band. I subsequently got fired from that band because I was working too hard. I don't know. They wanted to have a good time and they did for like three additional months until they just fell apart. So, they asked me to step away because I was putting too much pressure on moving forward and then at the same time Livia went through separating from her band and we said, "Hey, let's get together. Let's play music." And a relationship formed and we spent a lot of time together and ended up falling in love and getting married and did all that.
Honestly, was something that we were gonna get around to. We were always gonna get around to it and we were gonna figure it out. We did some rehearsing. We did some working up some stuff and then we got drunk at a birthday party and somebody there was like, "Oh man, I got a night booked at this venue. You guys should totally come and play." We were like, "Yeah, that sounds awesome. Let's play." And then like woke up the next morning and was like, "Did we agree to ..." It's like, "We better work up a half hour's worth of set." I called Jason Godby who was a personal friend mine or is a personal friend of ours now. We got together. We jammed out like five tunes and covered a Marilyn Manson song.

Dustin: Which one?

Matt: I Don't Like The Drugs (But The Drugs Like Me).

Dustin: Oh nice.

Matt: Nobody knew that there was a cover. They were like, "That lost song you played was dope." And I was like, "Thanks, I think."

Jeff: Don't look it up on the internet.

Matt: But, no, we sort of put our nuts in a vice and we were like, "Well, we gotta get some music going." Then we did it and it was a very positive response to the show and we did a second show and also got a very positive response and then immediately stopped playing. It was like, "All right, guys. If this is gonna be it and this gonna be real. We're recording a record. We're doing it right now."

Dustin: Do you think putting yourself in those do or die situations is ...

Matt: Honestly, it's the only way that we're able to function, which is terrible to say [crosstalk 00:22:34]

Dustin: So, jump off the cliff and figure out how to land later.

Matt: You better learn to fly before you hit the ground. Yeah.

Dustin: But not before you jump off the cliff.

Matt: That cliff was 10 miles back. We're still in free fall. It's honest to god, something ... We're going through the exact same thing right now. We're trying to cut a new record because we've booked the tour. The tour is happening no matter what and it's like, well, we're either gonna get a record done before we go or we're not. So, better kick it in gear. So, I think in two weeks we'll be in the studio and we got some tracks to cut and we're gonna ... We did the same thing last year. We cut an album of nine songs in about 17 days from moment one, stepping into the studio to cut demos to pressing it to vinyl. In a two week period, we fucking tracked it down, mixed, mastered, outputted, shipped off inside of a two week period. Nine tunes.

Dustin: That's awesome.

Matt: Only about five or six were actually written before we got into the studio. But it's a function of the you gotta get it done.

Dustin: But I feel like that's when some of the best stuff is produced.

Matt: Yeah.

Dustin: When it's like shit, we gotta get it done and all of a sudden ... You're all of a sudden not putting any thought into it. The Japanese term is mushin, no mind. When you put yourself into those do or die situations, it forces mushin upon you and you are not allowed to think about it. You don't have time to think about it. You only have time to react.

Matt: You just do.

Dustin: Which is the ... Then out comes the purist artwork you've probably every produced, sometimes.

Matt: You don't over think it.

Dustin: Sometimes you just make shit by accident. You can't help it sometimes.

Jeff: You had some really cool experiences with this band, not just with the touring, but also writing and recording music and stuff like that. One of the ... My favorite story's actually recently from your last record, you took inspiration from a comic book and made a song.

Matt: Oh yeah. The East of Wests.

Jeff: East of West, which is honest to god, my favorite comic [crosstalk 00:24:35] It comes out from Image Comics.

Matt: It's so good.

Jeff: And you were just inspired by the book. So, you wrote a song and entitled East of West and then you wrote me one day and was like, "I'm worried about putting this out and not getting permission." So I was like, "Just ask. Just go ask them." And the incredible Jonathan Hickman and-

Matt: He puts apparently ... We went to the book and his email address, his personal email address is in the back of the book, which is like-

Jeff: Which is crazy.

Matt: Fired off an email to [inaudible 00:25:04] and Hickman and got a response in like 10 minutes.

Dustin: That's awesome.

Matt: Yeah, and they came back and were like, "Sounds cool. Send us the track." So we sent them the recording.

Jeff: It's incredible.

Matt: And they came back right away and they were like, "This song is so good. We love it. You absolutely have our permission to post it." Then actually they did artwork for us.

Jeff: They did artwork for you and then actually put an ad in the back of the book, which ran, I think, for two or three months and that's just ... That is such a cool thing. Especially for a nerd like me. That's just ugh.

Matt: We talked to them and we worked a lot with Nick and we were just like, "We want to do this, but we want it to be beneficial for you." So, the way that we went about it was we said it's absolutely free. So, we released a single. It's got East of West, which is the track based on the comic and it's got another song called Morning Birds. It's a two song single. They did the artwork for it and it's 100% free and it will never charge for it. So if people want to go get that, you can go to theendmen.bandcamp.com and you can download it and it comes with like a screensaver wallpaper for your laptop and that's individual custom artwork for that.

Jeff: It's so cool.

Matt: And, yeah, that was our way to say thanks and they were super cool about it. About promoting that and just like getting the word out about a great story.

Jeff: Yeah, and you never know. It goes back to jumping off the cliff thing too because you never know. You're not gonna not write from inspiration and you wrote that song and then why not contact them and see what can happen. The absolute worst would be for them to come back and go, "You don't have the rights for this-"

Matt: Cease and desist.

Jeff: Cease and desist.

Matt: This is plagiarism.

Jeff: But that probably isn't gonna happen. What normally probably would have happened is you would have sent that email out and no response. And you probably would have still rolled the dice and put it on the record and been okay with it. But, I mean, just because you took that step, it's like-

Matt: Yeah, all of a sudden all this other cool stuff. We got to go to Comic-Con and we met up with Nick and Artist Row and we got to do a little chat-

Jeff: Yeah, do an interview with them. I got to do that-

Matt: Take some photos and sort of ... That particular title, it's artist owned. So, that's their own. They take all their own risks and reap all their own rewards. So, I really appreciate that sort of mentality out of them and it's just an awesome story.

Jeff: It's so awesome. Once again, East of West from Image Comics. It's still going strong. It's gonna hit up until issue 50. So, I mean, there's ways we can go and pick up all the trades that are out now and pick up the new ones when they come out. So, like I kind of stressed before, you are a madman. You are working with your company, with Talks at Google, you're putting in all that time. You're also doing other things with your company. You're doing all the stuff that's happening with your band including touring Europe multiple times, writing and creating and recording a record-

Dustin: I know what you're gonna ask, Jeff.

Matt: Should be like the fifth record. There's currently three reality TV shows that are in various stages of pitch out there in the world that I have partners that we're doing that front with. Day job, grinding away with the Talks at Program. The End Men by night. I have a podcast that we do.

Jeff: Yeah, you now are podcasting, which we've actually shouted out on this podcast a couple of times, Brave New Weed. It's great. I love the approach that you're taking because it's not ... You see weed in the title and it's not like, "We're a bunch of stoners and we're gonna talk about grass, man." It's like-

Matt: Try the blue dream, bro.

Jeff: Yeah.

Matt: Blue dream's killer. By the way, try the blue dream. I did.

Jeff: You and your co-hosts actually are coming at this from a scientific aspect because there is this stigma about Marijuana in normal culture. You guys are kind of point, counterpoint what really is ... What is this plant? What are the benefits and detriments for this plant?

Matt: The big deal behind the podcast is for so long we've lived in a culture that it has been a prohibition culture around cannabis, in general, and we've been sold so much bull shit. That's based on racism and classism and just horrible nonsense. The only way that we're gonna get past all this is if we can get real information out to people. We can normalize the presence of the plant. Dispel all the negative connotation that's just been made up to demonize it and correct the missteps that the prohibition culture has taken. Today cannabis is too expensive, too strong, too hard to get for no reason other than people have just manipulated the story and controlled the narrative. We gotta get out there. We gotta dispel all the narrative and give people real information. Real honest access to information.

Jeff: Those are the type of podcast that I really gravitate towards and love to listen to. So, that's really cool that you're doing that. All this stuff that you're doing, the one question and I love asking this question because it always seems like you're the perfect person. I always say that to every guest and you really are. You're so busy. You're so ... So many avenues of your life. What fuels you to keep going? To wake up in the morning and go, "Okay. I have 1,000 things I have to do today and I'm gonna knock them all out of the park." What fuels you to keep going and doing that? With all these things?

Matt: You just have to.

Jeff: Just have to.

Matt: You just absolutely have ... I mean-

Jeff: So, it's a need?

Matt: Part of it ...

Dustin: A series of cliff jumping and trying to learn how to fly.

Matt: Forward momentum. You can't just come to a gymnastic stop on the next cliff face. You're gonna hit it and bounce and continue to roll. I have the most amazing partner who has so many shared interests with me and we share a great love and a great relationship and a great marriage and a great band and so much else that I can't let her down. I can't let myself down in knowing what I'm capable of and what I want to spend my talents and my energy on. It's just a matter of collecting these experiences along the way and all these great things you get to do like sit here and talk with you guys about these things.
I wouldn't be able to do this if I didn't get up everyday and say, "All right. We're ..." I mean, maybe not knock all of them out of the park but start chopping away and then get up the next day and chop away and get up the next day and chop away. I think I said it in one of our pre-conversation. I was like it's just an absolute fear of being steam rolled by the momentum of the world and not being on the crest of that wave but being crushed under that wave. It's like if you can get up on top of it and just say look, "This is the world. This is the pace of how things are." I live in Brooklyn, New York City. If you take a day off, you're behind.

Jeff: Yeah, that city will leave you behind for sure.

Matt: It will. And you feel that pressure. After a while it's heavy and you don't want to carry it. Some days you just need a day off. Some days you need to come up state and spend three days barbecuing and having a good time with friends and -

Dustin: And drinking too much wine.

Matt: Then you just get back and you realize, all right. It's time to run. It's time to run with the wolves. So, let's grind it out.

Jeff: Awesome. Nice. Nice little plug there.

Matt: Grind it out.

Dustin: That earns you one extra cup of coffee.

Jeff: Finally let's talk about all the different places that people can find you and what you're doing. First of all Talks at Google, that is YouTube, correct?

Matt: You can go to youtube.com/talksatgoogle or you can go to google.com/talks.

Jeff: Talks at. Even easier-

Matt: Not talks at-

Jeff: Just talks.

Matt: Just talks. Google.com/talks. You can absolutely go and watch all of that great stuff.

Jeff: And then the End Men, which you already mentioned but ...

Matt: Yeah, you can go to the endmen.com, but I don't know if it's worth your time. If there's anybody out there really good at websites, maybe you want to email us at theendmen@gmail.com.

Jeff: Hey, who knows-

Dustin: You got an Instagram, right?

Matt: We do. We have an Instagram. We're on Twitter. All of it is The End Men. We were very fortunate when we came up with that name.

Jeff: And you said Bandcamp as well.

Matt: Yeah, theendmen.bandcamp.com. All the music is up there. You can just stream it until your heart's content. If you want to throw a couple of bucks at us and take it with you, you can do that. We appreciate that.

Jeff: That's awesome.

Dustin: And where can people find Brave New Weed?

Matt: Bravenewweed.com. Bravenewweed.com/podcasts for all the podcasts. I work with a great guy named Joe [Dulce 00:33:44]. He's the host of the show. He wrote an amazing book called Brave New Weed, which you can buy off the website as well. That'll get you up to speed to where you can dive straight in to all the podcast content and be right here with us, even plane of understanding and knowledge. So, bravenewweed.com or patreon.com/bravenewweed.

Jeff: Yep, your Patreon.

Matt: If you want to join and support on Patreon, you throw us like a buck and you get it for free.

Jeff: There you go.

Matt: Or you get like all the bonus ... Bonuses start at like a dollar. We don't need a bunch of money. We just want people involved.

Jeff: That's awesome. Well, finally, how can people follow you, Mr. Matt Hendershot?

Matt: Oh, I don't do anything.

Jeff: You don't do anything. Nice. [crosstalk 00:34:19] You're too busy with all the other stuff.

Matt: Yeah, I don't have Twitter, myself or an Instagram or any of that stuff. It's just like feed it all into the band. [crosstalk 00:34:27]

Jeff: Follow the band, the podcasts, all the stuff that you're doing with your company. That's just awesome. Thank you so much for taking time to come up here and talk with us.

Matt: It's my pleasure, man.

Jeff: For those of you who don't know, Matt has been my lifeline on this brand new studio. So, all of the cool stuff that-

Matt: Great job, by the way.

Jeff: Thank you. Well, with your tutelage it's definitely been a little bit easier.

Dustin: Tutelage is a funny word.

Jeff: I'm full of them. Man, come on.

Dustin: I like that. No, that's not like 1950s language like usual. It's not like dollars to donuts. You know? Tutelage is just a fun word to say.

Jeff: All right. Good. Well, thanks again, Matt for being on the show.

Matt: No, thank you guys it's been a pleasure.

Dustin: Yeah, cheers.