Fueled By death cast



Fueled By Death Cast Ep. 159 - Jackie Zebrowski

COMEDIAN AND PODCASTER - JACKEI ZEBROWSKI

"I think it's good to explore the things that make us uncomfortable to better ourselves." - Jackie Zebrowski, Last Podcast Network, Murderfist

 

 

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ABOUT JACKIE ZEBROWSKI:

The 159th episode of the podcast is also the first episode of 2020, and I welcome fellow podcaster and comedian Jackie Zebrowski to the show. Jackie is currently part of the Last Podcast Network, appearing regularly on The Last Podcast on the Left as well as her own show, Page 7. Jackie and her brother Henry, along with their friends started breaking into comedy with sketch groups like Murderfist, and have since built one of the largest and most successful podcast networks with like-minded creators. Jackie is very real and outspoken in who she is, and we talk about how she wasn't always that way. Start your New Year and new decade off right with an inspiring conversation with the one and only Jackie Zebrowski

TRANSCRIPT:

Jackie: So, thank you for asking me to do this. I'm very excited.

Jeff: Well, thanks for being on the show. I love talking with people on this show, because we talk about a lot of different things, and I rarely get to talk to people in the same space that I'm in, which is podcasting. You've been podcasting now for a while. When did you actually start full on with podcasting? Was it 2012? Am I correct in that?

Jackie: You mean making an actual living off of podcasting?

Jeff: Yeah, yeah not just...

Jackie: Probably two years ago? Three years ago?

Jeff: Oh, really?

Jackie: Yeah, yeah. No, it's real. I had a full time... I was in a whole other field before I decided to really double down on it and just, "Well, let me hope for the best."

Jeff: Was that other field sketch comedy?

Jackie: No, I mean, I did acting and things like that, but mostly, I was about to buy a business in New York.

Jeff: Oh, goodness.

Jackie: Yeah, I was a head manager of this bakery that I'd worked at for nine years that I was the face of, and I love baking and I love doing it, and I finally was like, "I don't really want to own a business, I don't think."

Jeff: Really? Okay, I love stories like this, because one of the hardest things to do in life, and I found this in my own life, and I've talked a lot of people the same way, is to make that shift, is to go both feet into brand new territory and leave something. You said you were in the baking business for nine years?

Jackie: Yeah.

Jeff: And you literally got to that point where you said, "I don't want to do this." Do you remember, was that a watershed moment, or was that kind of always building up like, "I don't really know if I like this," kind of thing?

Jackie: Well, I really liked the stability of it, and I was very scared of living in a world that is unstable, which definitely... I do now also voiceover work, and so voiceover work and podcasting is one of the most unstable worlds, of course, like most entertainment business, and it was a huge issue for me. Honestly, it's when I moved to LA, I left New York because I had a really bad breakup, an 11 year break up, and my whole life was shattered. I had no idea that it was ending. You know what I mean? It was like one of those where I just got slammed like a truck.

Jackie: Henry was out here. My older brother, Henry Zebrowski was out here and he was like, "Why don't you just try it? Why don't you just come out here, fucking leave it all behind, live with me, try it over again and really triple down on podcasting," and I did and it's working.

Jeff: Wow.

Jackie: Which is crazy.

Jeff: Was that terrifying?

Jackie: Yeah. I am not a changed person. I'm not that kind of person. I don't live for change. I don't jump off of cliffs. I like stability. I like knowing when my paychecks are coming in. I like knowing that maybe someday I can buy a house, which now all of that is out the window, but it's kind of fun to do that when you're 30 years old of just, "What if I start over again and if I really truly hate it, you can go back or you can choose again," and I think that's a big thing that our parents raised us with, it's the idea of you can choose again and I like that.

Jeff: That is so fricking inspiring, and I mean, you move out to LA and you start working, at that point for Last Podcast Network, and what's incredible about a network like Last Podcast, is they've been in the game for so long and to the point where if you go back to the beginning of Last Podcast Network, that was at a time when the word podcast was still this swear word. No one spoke in good circles or nobody even understood.

Jackie: For sure. We started Round Table of Gentleman because I was the starter of Last Podcast Network. I was doing Page Seven. I've been podcasting for about 10 years, I just would do it on the side, so when we started Round Table Gentleman, we were in a dilapidated basement next to a heater and half of the times I was so blackout drunk while recording that I won't listen to the episodes. I don't want to know what early twenties Jackie was going through, but you can hear it all. It's all recorded, but because I never expected it to be a thing. It was just an excuse for us to get together once a week to create something, and get really drunk, and then we would drink all night long afterwards.

Jeff: I always say this, I feel like podcasting was the real evolution of the blog sphere. You've got your radio deejay, you've got the people who are going to be in radio, and radio is never going to die, but then as the internet started to take hold in the late nineties and early two thousands, there was this space of how do I exist and be able to talk to people outside of the car radio, or your boombox, or whatever, and that's kind of where podcasting became... Like you mentioned, which I think is so interesting, in the beginning of that era, no one was in it to be like, "Oh, everybody's going to listen to this."

Jackie: No, I didn't think anyone was ever going to listen to it. I thought maybe a hundred people. It's like, "Wouldn't that be cool if a hundred people," and now we're talking hundreds of thousands of people, and that blows my mind.

Jeff: It's crazy. Again, to see the trajectory of a network like Last Podcast Network start in that space and now, like you said, hundreds of thousands of listeners. Every show on the network has fans. You guys are boasting now, I can't even can't keep up with how many shows Last Podcast has, it's over 20 I think at this point, right?

Jackie: There's a good amount of it, and what I enjoy is that it is still all kept mostly within house. This is not a network that's going out and being like, "This one's doing well, let's suck it in," that's not what we're doing, it's just all of us have, I don't know what the word is, I guess an addiction to working, and we just want to keep making things.

Jeff: That's exciting, and that's really cool too because one of the things that I notice about the shows, and you said it, you guys aren't just going out there and acquiring shows like the Disney of Podcast Network. You guys are doing stuff in house, and what it really stems is, if you look at the shows that are on The Last Podcast Network, Page Seven included, it's all about passion. Every single host of every single show that you have is talking about what they're passionate about, and that's I think why people are so rabid to consume what you guys are creating, and I think that's really awesome.

Jackie: Thank you. Hell yeah.

Jeff: I think that really is needed in the podcast space, because it is ballooned into this thing where anybody with a microphone, hell, anybody with a smartphone, can make a podcast and upload it to Apple Podcasts, or Spotify, or wherever the heck they want to, but a lot of times people are talking about nothing, or have nothing to say, and you can tell that every single show that you guys are doing, you have passionate people involved in it, including your show Page Seven.

Jackie: Thank you.

Jeff: I mean, you guys are hilarious and you can tell that you really, really enjoy celebrity culture. What is it about celebrity culture? What was the antithesis of Page Seven? Was it just, "Celebrities are weird, let's talk about them," or how did that kind of form?

Jackie: It was around the same time that Last Podcast was starting and Molly Knefel, my cohost and I, and Marcus, we would just get drunk at the Creek, which was the bar that the network started in. It was a back room at a bar, and we would just be sitting there drinking, and essentially it was like, "Man, I need things to talk to," because I had worked in customer service, and I just kept thinking, "What the fuck else do you talk to people about? You talk about the weather, you talk about..."

Jackie: What I was realizing at the time... Of course, now we're doing the deep dives into pop history, and getting into different celebrities, and where things come from, and I find that very interesting, but what the fuck do you talk to people about? Whether they not know her, or whether they hate her, or whether they love her, everyone has something to say about Kim Kardashian. If you have just anything to say, you can start a conversation with someone.

Jackie: Molly and I didn't give a fuck about celebrity gossip and it was like, "Wouldn't it be fun if we started to explain celebrity gossip and kind of what's going on in celebrity world to people that also really don't care," just enough so that you can talk to other people and it not be boring, that you can get into a heated fight about what you think about the show Succession, and just enough that it's like, "Oh, I didn't even think I would like Succession. I'm going to go watch it," and that kind of influencing, which is silly cultural influencing, that I find so fun because not everyone's going to like what I like and that's okay, but I like what I like, and I like to talk about it, and then how are you going to know what you like and what you don't like if you don't know about it?

Jeff: Exactly, exactly. I think that's what's so endearing about a show like Page Seven, too, because again, I don't give a fuck about the Kardashians. I don't care about it. I don't care about anyone in their family, but that's a conversation starter right there. I don't give a fuck, and I'll give you ten questions why.

Jackie: Yeah, let's talk about it and why.

Jeff: Exactly. Exactly.

Jackie: How we moved, especially over the past couple of years since I've really invested in this, my goal is to make it a more positive show. When it first started it was just celebrity gossip, and now over the past two years and I don't think a whole lot of people notice, but we never talk about the sexual harassment cases, we never bring up Weinstein, we never bring that stuff up, because there's so much negativity in this world, and what I want Page Seven to be is an hour of listening to silly, just celebrities doing cool things. SIA just bought a bunch of groceries for people at a Walmart the day before Thanksgiving and things like that. It's like, "Isn't that cool? Isn't it nice that there are good people out there and why not talk about it?"

Jeff: Exactly. Exactly, and I think that's cool, because you do see the evolution of the show. You do still have your main show where you guys just kind of go off on anything and everything that you want to talk about, and I've noticed recently, you've been doing your pop history, which is a lot of fun. In fact, I'm going to 100% bump your show again because I want my listeners and viewers to go check out Page Seven, because you just did a show as we're recording this on someone near and dear to everybody at Death Wish Coffee and that's Rob Zombie.

Jackie: Dude, that episode. I didn't know a lot about Rob Zombie and now I'm obsessed.

Jeff: It's awesome, right?

Jackie: Yes, it's great because I love his movies but I never really got into his music or anything, and so that's why when Natalie and Holden and I started getting into it, because they were obsessed with his music and I loved the movies. I was like, "All right, cool, let's tackle this in a fun way," and then now I'm fucking inspired by him.

Jeff: Have you ever seen him live?

Jackie: No.

Jeff: I 100% recommend it, because it's amazing. He does such pageantry on stage, and he's been doing it for so long, and you guys even talk about it on the show how he's become such a health nut, and we at Death Wish Coffee, we're really good friends with his tour photographer, Rob Fenn. He goes on all tours with him and everything and in fact, he brought us out to the final show that The Twins of Evil Tour that they did this year, Marilyn Manson and Rob Zombie. Manson is theatrical, that's his whole deal as well, but Zombie steals the show, because he really takes care of himself and he knows how to command a crowd from the minute he hits the stage to the minute he leaves, and he plays for an hour and a half. It's crazy.

Jackie: That's amazing. Especially, anyone that puts on a show like that. I just recently saw Ghost for the first time and I don't know if you've ever... Oh, my. My boyfriend was like, "Oh, you should listen to Ghost," I was like, "Oh, all right. Sure." I fell in love with the music and then with seeing them... What a performance. How do you not feel like you're really living when you're watching something like that?

Jeff: Exactly. Exactly. I love anybody who's creative in any aspect, whether it's entertainment, or music, or whatever it is, but when you infuse theatrics into it, I am your biggest fan, always. I've always loved that, and I know that about you too. Correct me if I'm wrong, you do have a theater background? You went to school for it, right?

Jackie: I do, yes. I went to school for theater.

Jeff: What drew you to that? Was that in your childhood? Was that something that you kind of gravitated towards later in school? What drew you to the theater world?

Jackie: Honestly, it's all to do with Henry from Last Podcast. It really was the kind of thing where... I was really not a good person when I was younger, I was a really bad bully. I was very, morbidly obese and I was a mean person. I went through anger management, did the whole thing, and Henry, essentially, when I went into high school, he was popular, he always did theater. I had no desire to do any of it, and he's like, "Listen, we're going to be fat forever, but we're also funny, and there are things that you can do to use what we have, and to make your life better. What is a way... How do we be fat forever and make people like us?"

Jackie: I'm 14 and he's 16, 17 years old, and I was like, "You're right." He's like, "Why not? Instead of putting all of our self hatred towards ourselves, why don't we use it and make things with it?" So, I started doing theater in high school after he left, and then in college we did sketch comedy together, so we've been working together ever since, which is why I was like, "You're right," which is so stupid but it really comes down to that, "How do I be fat forever and it be okay?"

Jackie: In theater, you definitely can. In acting, that's a whole other fucking ballgame, which is why I don't do it anymore, but you provide something because you have to have that representation. There's it, you have to have it.

Jeff: That's incredible. You were saying when you were a kid in school you had no aspiring to be in theater, to be doing what your brother was doing, and then there was that switch, that's very hard for a lot of people. Were you always an outgoing person? Was it hard to be on stage in front of a crowd, or did you take to it like a fish like water?

Jackie: It was pretty easy for me, because I had gone into college as a meteorology major, and I wanted to work for NASA, and then eventually my big goal, like life goal, was to be an on camera meteorologist for the news.

Jeff: I love it.

Jackie: That's what I always wanted to be. I'm obsessed with the weather. I'm still obsessed with the weather, but you can party forever though in this field, that's what I thought at the time. Of course, now I'm basically a fucking nun, but at that time it was like, "Well, I could party forever, and act, and do all that kind of stuff. You can't really if you're a meteorologist because that's working all the time." I hit, I think, Calc Four and I was like, "I'm good. No, thank you." So, I switched majors.

Jeff: Oh, wow. Wow. So, you and Henry started doing sketch comedy pretty much at that time and then in college as well. I mean, that must've been pretty easy as well too, because I mean, you guys have been so close your entire life, brother and sister. Was it just natural, the writing process kind of doing that?

Jackie: Yeah, it was crazy. We had a big group. So, they started before I went to college, and then I went to Florida State, because they had started it, and so then I just immediately joined it, and I love it because Holden even says back then, he's like, "Yeah, Henry kept saying, 'Oh my sisters coming in' and just assumed you were going to be a part of our sketch comedy group." He's like, "But then you're actually fucking funny, so it kind of worked out." I'm like, "Thank you." I think that's a compliment?

Jeff: That's great. Well, I mean, that all coalesces into a couple of different forms, and then eventually what would become MURDERFIST. Full disclosure, I mean, I had known who Henry was tangentially, and then through that had heard your name, but the first thing I think I ever saw you in was Sads, that skit. I remember laughing until crying seeing that, because it's such a great premise, but I mean that was much farther along into MURDERFIST. I know leaving college, you moved to New York City to basically pursue that, to pursue sketch comedy?

Jackie: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jeff: What is that like? I mean, it's notoriously one of the hardest industries ever, and it breaks people down. I guess, to use the lack of a better word again, was that terrifying?

Jackie: Yes. No, definitely. It was definitely terrifying, and going up to New York and essentially being at the bottom of the barrel, because when they left college and they started... Essentially I've just been following his hoard of men my entire life. It's like, "Why aren't I? Well, I may as well go or I guess, I'll fucking figure it out," because in back of my mind I always thought you could choose again and do something else and it was very scary, but what we loved, ans how we met Kissel, and how we met Michael Che, and how we met all these people back in the day, was that we were a sketch comedy group. In the world of comedy, everyone hates each other. In the sketch world, you hate the standup world. The standup world, you hate the improv world. It is very divided.

Jackie: We were the only sketch comedy group that worked in the standup world, so we would do standup shows. So, we hung out with only standups and never identified as a sketch comedy group, which I think that is a weird identity crisis thing that we all had, because it was viewed as lame in the comedy world to do sketch comedy. I don't think of that as true, but that is how it was viewed. So, we did a lot. We essentially would just party all the time, do many shows every week for nothing, for ourselves to not make any money, and to be so broke for such a long time, and that's why I had had a full time job, because I mean, comedy wasn't paying the bills. We were offered, years and years ago, our own show, but then they're like, "All right, well we want your name, but we want to bring in other writers. So, you guys can't write it, and we're going to bring in another actors," and we're like, "No." So, we stuck by our ground and was like, "We're not doing that. We'll wait until somebody comes, wants to give us the golden ticket, and then we're going to write our own stuff, and we're going to perform in our own things," but that doesn't happen, and then you look years later like, "Maybe, we should have taken that?"

Jeff: I don't know. I think your path has made it to a pretty interesting point, that might not have if you had taken that.

Jackie: Exactly, but now in the whole podcast world, like you were saying earlier, we didn't think we were ahead of the curve on anything, we just thought we'd like to fuck around with our friends and record ourselves, so that was pretty much it.

Jeff: Yeah. Do you enjoy the writing process, writing sketch and stuff like that? I know you do a lot of work, even with Page Seven, a lot of research, and kind of scripting out what you guys are going to talk about. Do you enjoy that process?

Jackie: I enjoy it for Page Seven. I think like most artists you talk to, I love it when it's for me, and when it's the things I want to write about, and I had a real problem with sketch comedy for a long time that I was just done. I didn't want to do it. I was a bitch for a really long time, because they essentially needed me because I was the only woman, pretty much, and they couldn't do it without me. So, I had to do it and I was like, "Fine, I will do it and I will write, I guess," but then all I would do is write my own things, because I didn't want to write for anybody else, which is very selfish, but now I realize it's how I created my voice. It's why on Instagram, I've got my weird Jackanese speak. I've made a bunch of bullshit, because that's how I enjoy writing and creating now, is writing dumb lyrics for songs for an ad, things like that. I like doing that.

Jeff: Yeah. Yeah. I think that's one of the most amazing things about you, is that you are you. So many times, people in this space, in a podcasting space and an entertainment space, they have a persona and they also have themselves, and you are very much yourself. You talk about it all the time like, "This is me. Fuck you if you don't like it."

Jackie: Yeah. Oh yeah. I cry five times a day and I'm okay with it.

Jeff: I love that about you, because I think that authenticity, it's golden in the world, and it is something that is lost on a lot of people. There is not enough authenticity in the world, and I think you're a champion for that. I think that's really awesome.

Jackie: Well, I think it's because a lot of people... And I understand it's scary. I'm a very sensitive person, and I'm aware of that, and it is hard for me to read negative things online, because that's the problem though, is when there is no border, when there no wall, which is why I never liked doing stand up, when it's just you on a stage, it hurts 20 times more than if you're a character, than if you are hiding behind someone else's work that they wrote for you.

Jackie: It's like, "Oh well, it was them that did it. They wrote something bad, and that wasn't on me." So, when you are so true to who you actually are, everything is taken so personally and I try not to, I try not to look at things, but you could read a thousand positive things and read one negative thing... I remember Henry posted some video of me, a dumb video. I think I was smoking a cigarette, and I was on an exercise bike, and most of it was just like, "She's crazy," and then a lot of it was just like, "Look how fat her thighs are, I can see the fat jiggling," and I was like, "Man. Come on, I can too, but you don't need to say it. That sucks. I know you can see my fat jiggling."

Jeff: It's amazing, the world we live in. In the future, now as this episode's coming out in 2020, where everything is so accessible, and we have such a finger on the pulse of the world, so to speak, but it sucks for people who are in the public eye. It must be very hard to be able to balance, "Okay, I am a creative person and I'm doing what I am, and I am who I am," but then having to wade through seeing comments like that, because people are going to love you, people are going to hate you, no matter what you do, it doesn't matter, that's always going to be a thing. It's an unfortunate minefield.

Jackie: I mean, but I used to do the same thing and working at a bakery where I used to read the Yelp reviews and if someone I thought was talking about me in a Yelp review and I'd be devastated. So, no matter what field you work in, like you just said, there's going to be things that upset you about how other people view you and view how you work, and that's simply a part of it. I think that if that is the downside of me being able to be myself for a living, and for me to like myself enough at this point, after years, and years, and years of therapy that I am still in, of liking yourself to a point of celebrating yourself, then I'll take it.

Jeff: Yeah, exactly. Again, I think that's why it's so amazing to see what you create and put out into the world. We've talked a lot about Page Seven, you do guest, and do a lot of voice commercials, and stuff on all of the different things on The Last Podcast Network, including Last Podcast on the Left, the flagship show that Henry's on, and all that, which is a great show too, because it does this seamless meld of horror and comedy, which is such a thing now. In fact, I've talked to many different comedians who kind of resonate this same idea, and it's something that I love to talk about with people like you, that there is this intrinsic, I don't know, parallel between the two. I really truly believe that the best horror also includes comedy, and I think the best comedy also includes something horrific. Do you agree with that?

Jackie: Oh, yeah. I think that it's why for such a long time it was so funny to dare to be offensive, to say things that were bad, because at the time that was the version of being horrific. Thank Christ times have changed, and I'm very happy that things have changed, but now there's new ways of, "Okay, then how do I toe the line of being annoying," or I know that I am obscenely obnoxious with how I present myself, and how I carry myself, because I'm fine with being a divisive character. I'm okay with that. That is who I am. You do. You love me or hate me, and that's okay. I've dealt with people that have hated me my entire life and that's okay too.

Jackie: But I think it's finding and trying to find then, "All right. How else do we push the limits then?" And it's fun because now there's so many new ways to push the limits, like jamming a bunch of words into a song or bringing up, "Who let the dogs out," every three days to my boyfriend just to piss him off, because it's funny, because then it'll get stuck in his head and to that I'll go, "Get in my belly," and I'll say that over him as he wakes up in the morning. I think that's great.

Jackie: So, that's the new way of being horrifying and being funny, at the same time, I feel like, right? I also go, "You are the weakest link, goodbye," for no reason. I think it's great.

Jeff: I love it.

Jackie: Add that into your vernacular, because it really pisses everyone off.

Jeff: I freaking love it. I love it.

Jackie: There are ways to piss people off and not offend anyone, that doesn't offend anybody. It's great.

Jeff: Exactly. Exactly. Ah, God, it's refreshing to talk to someone like you because again, you really have a handle on who you are, and you're unapologetic for it, and that is so needed. It's so wonderful in this world. We are in such a cancel culture where everything is offensive, everything is wrong, and I'm going to talk to your manager, and I'm sick of that. It's not needed. We need more authenticity, like I said.

Jackie: Yeah, there are new ways. I'm hoping that now 10 years down the line that making not topical references doesn't offend people, because then my career is over, then it's done.

Jeff: That's true. That's true. I'm guilty of that too though, I mean it's everyday life. It has to be. That brings me to the theme of this show though, through it all we all are on this rock, for better or for worse, for as long as we got, and we're all fueled by this idea of death because that's the finish line, and it doesn't matter, but we want to do something. We want to leave the world a little different before we inevitably leave it for good, and I think you're doing a really good job on that, but what fuels you to keep being you? What fuels you to keep creating and keep doing what you do?

Jackie: Honestly, it's people that write into me and it really does... I think four years ago me would look at me like, "What the fuck are you talking about Jackie?" I think that exploring in new ways of fashion, and things like that, are ways that keep me going, where every year I've got... This year I did [inaudible 00:28:24] 2019, and I have different things every year to push me past my limits of, "Well, I don't like wearing bodycon dresses. I don't have the stomach for it," and I said, "Well, fuck it. I'm going to get one, and I'm going to go out, and I'm going to wear it, and I'm going to fucking own it, and I'm going to feel confident in it, and I'm trying to push that to other people of wear a dark lip, who gives a fuck? Do you like it? Do it. Does it not hurt anybody else? Do it."

Jackie: I think that we all put ourselves in our own box of what we can and cannot do, and there are little things that you can choose every day in your life of, "I am going to wear a darker lipstick than usual," and then you know what? No one's probably going to notice, but it's for you, and it's those little things you do for you, that change just your energy that you put out into the world. So, those are the kinds of things that I think that I keep striving to encourage other people to do, and I struggle with it myself, which is why I like to talk about it. I think it's good to explore the things that make us uncomfortable to better ourselves.

Jeff: That's so inspiring and I think you set it at the top there, one of the things is people who write to you, and your incredible fan base, and I think a lot of them are vocal because they connect with that. You're saying what thinking but it doesn't say out into the public maybe, and I think you're being that voice and opening that box I think is so needed and so amazing. I'll tell you this, in a personal thing, my wife loves what you do.

Jackie: That's awesome.

Jeff: In fact, she told me specifically to tell you that you are forever her hot dog ambassador.

Jackie: Oh, thank you. I got my hotdog tattoo. I don't know if you can see it over the [inaudible 00:30:12].

Jeff: Oh, I see it. It's awesome.

Jackie: He's got a little tiny smiley face.

Jeff: That's awesome. Actually, before I continue with that, one of my most crowning achievements is when my wife and I were dating, she did not eat hot dogs. She ate them as a kid and she wasn't into hot dogs anymore, and I'm a hot dog lover, and I was like, "This will change," and she was like, "You can't change me," and I was like, "This will change," and now we're married and she loves hot dogs. There's hot dogs in the fridge waiting for me when I get home.

Jackie: Yes, that makes me so happy. I'm very proud of you. I never want to encourage to change your partner for the worst, but if it's changing them to the point of making their lives richer, I support it.

Jeff: 100%. 100%. What's great is, when Tricia first started listening to your show, she would bring you up like she had just had a conversation with you on the street like, "Oh, Jackie said this," and to the point where the first couple of times I was like, "Who the hell is Jackie? I haven't met this Jackie, yet," and she's like, "Oh, it's this podcast I'm listening to." It became like you're almost her spirit animal, and that's the kind of thing that I think a lot of your fans resonate with is because of this authenticity, this realness, this ability to do the things you might be scared of, that other people are scared of, and you're saying, "Hell, it's fucking okay. Just do it."

Jackie: Yeah, let's do it, because I mean, I miss doing Sex and Other Human Activities. I did this sex and mental health advice show for a long time, because I miss talking about the days that I don't want to do it because of course I've got those. I've got those every other day that I am very... I have a lot of problems with myself and it's something I've explored throughout my entire life of how it makes me feel, how it affects my day, and those kind of things, and I appreciate you saying that because I also never want to hide that part of it either, right? It is a big part of who I am and that's why I want to reach out to people. I love that people immediately are like, "We're friends, right?" I'm like, "Fuck yeah, I'm down. I want to be your friend. I think that it's awesome." I think that just creating any kind of positive energy between two people, even if it's over an email, or a DM, or anything, and even just writing a positive comment, it makes other people feel good, too. I don't know. That's it. I think it's fucking great.

Jeff: That's fucking great. That's so great. That's so great.

Jackie: I felt like it's like Bill Murray at the end of Scrooge, where its like...

Jeff: Here's your cooked goose.

Jackie: Yeah. [inaudible 00:00:33:01].

Jeff: Full circle. Full circle.

Jackie: Yeah, baby.

Jeff: So, as we're looking forward into 2020, first of all, I got to ask, just actual thought, do you give a fuck about new year's resolutions? Are you a new year's resolution person, or are you just like, "Let's just do it?"

Jackie: I think my new year's resolutions are my fashion choices, so for 2020 I'm doing neon goth, so I want to work on, essentially Euphoria makeup, with really bright colors but also wear it with my usual dark clothing, with pops of neon. So, that's more of what my resolution is. My resolution is dedicating myself to another bullshit fashion trend that I've created for myself.

Jeff: Fuck, I love it. I love it. So, looking at your space in the podcast and all that stuff, obviously Page Seven is going strong, that's going to keep going. You guys are going to keep churning out a ton of awesome content there. Anything else new that you can talk about looking towards the beginning of 2020? I know you've got stuff in the works probably you can't talk about, but...

Jackie: Yeah, we've got things all over the place. I know that Henry and I are really trying to sell a show together, so if you can put your good energy out there for the two of us, I think that it would be great. I think a cartoon starring Henry and I would be a lot of fun.

Jeff: Oh, that would be amazing. I know you do voice work. Have you done any cartoon work?

Jackie: I haven't done cartoon work yet, but I've been doing a lot more audio books and that has been really interesting, and it's been a very... Teaching yourself, essentially by doing audio books, and in a room, having to be with a producer, just staring at you as you speak, but having to switch from character, to character, to character, and to have conversations is terrifying and also has made me learn a lot. So, I think that that's really going to help in the cartoon world.

Jackie: It's very hard to break into the cartoon world, but the audio book world, I started that this year, that was what I accomplished this year and I'd like to do more in the future, because it is difficult. It's a lot harder than I thought it was.

Jeff: That's crazy. Any of the books that you've spoken for, can you talk about yet, or are they not out yet?

Jackie: Yeah, I've got two books. I have a Calamity Jane book that's out. It's called Calamity and actually, it's because of the Aileen Wuornos episode I did for The Last Podcast that the author reached out to me. So, it is a first person perspective of Calamity Jane. So, I'm a big old gun toting lady and I was obsessed with Calamity Jane for quite some time.

Jeff: Do you leave the booth and still are Calamity Jane for the next couple of hours?

Jackie: Oh, yes. Also, I am scared of owning guns, or anything like that, so I did download the app you have in your phone that you.... You point and, "Bang, bang," and hold your phone like I'm a 12 year old, so I would definitely do that to my boyfriend. He hated it and I thought it was very funny. I would pretend to be Calamity Jane and I just had another one out called One For The Blackbird, One For The Crow, which is a literary fiction. It's actually very intense, and there are a lot of characters that sweeping generational... No, it's like a Midwest, a Dakota's territory, Grapes of Wrath type book. Very against what I usually do and it was so much fucking fun.

Jeff: Awesome. Awesome. Well, I'm going to put links to both those in the show because I want to be able to hear your voice all the time. I think that's amazing, and we're going to, obviously, good vibes, lots of caffeinated thoughts towards you guys.

Jackie: Oh, baby. Yeah, that's us, and also, LPN is a caffeinated by solely Death Wish now, and ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, we get so much work done.

Jeff: I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. For everything that you got, all the irons in the fire with you, and Henry, and everything else, I think 2020 is going to be a great year. The roaring twenties are coming back. We're all going to be in it.

Jackie: Oh, my God. Isn't that nuts?

Jeff: It's nuts.

Jackie: Oh my God, that makes my chest hurt. 2020. Oh, my God, it makes my chest hurt.

Jeff: It's nuts.

Jackie: Oh, Jeff. We've gotten old.

Jeff: We've gotten old, but just like wine, that means we're getting better.

Jackie: We're getting better at it, because life does get better as you get older.

Jeff: It is true. It is true. Finally, for all of my viewers and listeners, what is the best way to keep up? Obviously, Page Seven and all of the podcasts on Last Podcast Network, or wherever podcasts are found, so go subscribe to all of those, but for you personally, what's your social media choice? Is it Instagram or is it...

Jackie: Yeah, I'm a big Instababy. I'm on Instagram, @Jackthatworm, and I'm also on Twitter, @Jacktheworm because Jackthatworm was taken, and this is long ago, when I didn't think my social media would ever... I'd never do anything with it, and now I don't know how to change it. Obviously, it has to do with jerking off.

Jeff: Obviously. So, final question because so much of, as I'll put it, your sexual comedy comes into play during Page Seven and various things that you do, will you revive your show, because that was a great show?

Jackie: I would really like to do it. I have a hopes of finding a therapist. I've been in talks with working with an actual relationship therapist, and it is a very difficult to find one that A, has the time B, will do it for free, and C, has any absolute desire to be known as the person to come to for relationship and mental health advice. So, I'm on the hunt. So, if you are listening to this and you qualify for those three things, hit me up on Instagram. You can hit me up at Jackie.Zebrowski at Gmail, because I really would like to do that show again.

Jeff: Yeah, I'd love to see that come out too, but I'm just so excited for everything you're doing and honestly, I cannot thank you enough for taking time and talking with me, because it was truly inspiring and amazing to talk to you.

Jackie: Thank you so much Jeff for having me, and I can't wait to meet Tricia.

Jeff: Yeah.

Jackie: I want to meet her. I want you guys to come to Los Angeles.

Jeff: Definitely. I try to make it out to LA at least once a year. We get out there at least once a year, so when I do make it out in 2020, I'm going to definitely try and bring Tricia, and I'm definitely going to try and see you guys for sure.

Jackie: Please, because if anything we could all just go get dinner or something. I would love to do that. I think it's so much fun because I forget, since I'm new to the West Coast, that if you live on the West Coast anywhere, you will be in LA at some point throughout the year, which is awesome.

Jeff: All roads lead to LA, it's weird.

Jackie: You have to at some point, you had to be here.

Jeff: Even when you don't want to be in LA, it's like, "Wait a minute, how the hell did I get here?"

Jackie: "How am I here? I fucking hate it here," which I get. Now, I mean, I understand it, although I still see it as a beautiful paradise in comparison to living in New York. So, I'll take it.