Fueled By Death Cast Ep. 107 - HANA DEVORE

Hana Devore


"You need to have good people around you and I guess educate yourself because these naïve girls who I talk to I'm like you got to do some research on what's really going on." Hana Devore, athlete, IFBB Bikini Pro, VP of marketing Real Good Foods






Hana Devore is an accomplished athlete, bodybuilder, and fitness model, and joins the show to talk about living happy and healthy. Hana is the VP of marketing for Real Good Foods as well and she has some sound advice on achieving and maintaining a healthy diet, with lots of coffee too! Plus, hear how she got into the International Federation of Bodybuilders as a bikini model and what is in store for her future.


Its the first show of 2019! This week we talk about a flying observatory and water-ice on Mars on Science. Then meet Scott Miller on the Death Star of the Week, and stick around for a brand new segment that doesn't even have a name yet. On The Roast, we discuss New Year's traditions around the world and throughout history, and express our disdain of new years resolutions. Finally, get your first look at our brand new Cold Brew coming in 2019 on The Update.


Dustin: I wanted to start this off by talking about how I got connected to you was through the coffee world.

Hana: Yeah.

Dustin: I want to start by asking you how did you get into the coffee world? What interests you in the coffee world? How did that all start off for you?

Hana: Yeah so I worked in wine for 10 years in marketing and millennials are coming up and they're starting to influence the wine industry but wine is still dominated by that older generation and it is still no matter what Napa is still really stuffy and for 10 years I wore a suit jacket. I covered my tattoos. When it was 105 degrees outside and we were doing wine tasting events I was covered up because I still have to be and I found coffee. I was looking for a job that was a little bit closer to home, I was just starting to think about it. I talked to Dennis over at Loring when we talked about coffee for awhile and I realized that coffee's like a younger, cooler wine industry.

Jeff: Yeah I know.

Dustin: I never thought of it that way but yeah.

Hana: Also in wine people in their 20s and 30s can't just start a business. You can't just start a winery like you can start a coffee company.

Dustin: Right.

Hana: The barriers to enter are just nuts. That's why a lot of wineries are owned by actors, people who already made money in Silicon Valley.

Jeff: Yeah.

Hana: Musicians and athletes and in coffee I saw all these young business owners and I thought that was so cool.

Dustin: Yeah.

Hana: So part of it was looking for something closer to home and not having to drive all the way to Napa because I was over just north of the golden gate bridge.

Jeff: Okay.

Hana: Then I was driving all the way over to Napa.

Dustin: Oh, wow.

Hana: Yeah so I found Loring and coffee turned out to be the coolest.

Dustin: Yeah coffee is fun.

Jeff: There is some stuffy corners of the coffee world as well.

Hana: I saw that as well. So again coffee is really similar to wine in that there's still snobs.

Dustin: Yeah.

Hana: I would go and do a tasting at blue bottle and I would go okay this is pretty much the wine industry.

Dustin: I do like blue bottle but it is very, notes of what?

Hana: Yeah, yeah.

Dustin: No, no but yeah I definitely caught a lot of those moments with some of those people because we're this new coffee company that just came out into the market and took everybody by storm and people are like who are you what are you doing here?

Hana: Yeah you guys roasting dark too do you get shit for how you roast?

Jeff: We get shit for everything because when we first were coming into a consciousness but right around the super bowl commercial that we got it was I forget, somebody did an article on us, it might have been Huffington Post or something. They coined the term subversive marketing and they used us as an example and it was like in your face we're the pirates that come to town and we're roasting dark, we're saying we're the world's strongest coffee. You go to a coffee convention and you see everybody in their booths and they all have their own aesthetic and you immediately know where the fuck Death Wish Coffee is because we are a bunch of bearded tattooed all in black skull and crossbones. So we've gotten flack for pretty much everything we've done.

Hana: Yeah.

Jeff: Since the inception of it.

Dustin: Which is great. I love that.

Hana: I mean PR wise you guys have done amazing.

Jeff: Thanks.

Dustin: Thank you.

Hana: But yeah from working with Loring and working with people like Patrick Roll from all these Nordic guys who are roasting like tea. I can see how there would be some different opinions.

Dustin: Yeah I think that light roast thing is a fad and it'll pass.

Hana: Really?

Dustin: Yeah. I think it's something like 90 percent of coffee consumers prefer dark roast.

Hana: And that's true, yeah. Yeah if you think about the rest of the country there's this pocket of people who want that light roast. But most people are going to dump a bunch of crap into their coffee so you do have to make coffee for them or they're just used to drinking something that's stronger and they think that they're going to get a better buzz off of it too. So if I were to give a cup of that very light roasted coffee to my boss he would be like this isn't strong enough.

Dustin: Yeah 'cause the flavor isn't there or it's not what you would expect when you think of a cup of coffee. You think of a black, dark, bold cup of coffee and we were just trying to hit that mark. Enough about us.

Hana: But you do a variety of roasts though.

Jeff: No.

Dustin: We do the Death Wish roast and then we do Zakk Wylde Valhalla Java which is also another dark roast.

Hana: Yeah, cool.

Dustin: But we do it it's a Guatemalan Honduras, Sumatran mix with some other things.

Hana: Okay, cool.

Jeff: That's not technically true because if we are talking about a Loring roaster we do utilize our roaster. We were partnered with a local coffee company, coffee traders is actually where Death Wish started and we do roast their blends as well off of our own.

Dustin: And then we'll do our seasonal.

Hana: Okay, so you'll do stuff for other people.

Dustin: Yeah, yeah. We get good work out of those machines. So you're an educated nutritionist or nutritionist, how do you say that?

Hana: No, I can't claim that title.

Dustin: Okay.

Hana: But I started competing in fitness. I started to do a little bit of coaching because I'm on a team. You don't have to be on a team in body building but it's ideal I would say because you want that support and usually these teams will have a head coach and then maybe a couple of coaches below them. After I had been doing it for about four and a half years my coach who owns the team was like hey do you want to try this out? So I help a few girls but I'm not a full blown dietician or anything.

Dustin: So no false claims here but what is your view on the health benefits or the health effects of coffee?

Hana: Oh, well I mean I think most of what I've read has been positive, right? I drink a ton of it. Through body building I discovered how you can get yourself into adrenal fatigue but that that's not just caffeine related, there's so many things. So I ended up having to do a quick caffeine detox. I did it for three weeks after I had been competing and I had stressed myself out mentally and physically so much that I actually I got everything tested, my hormones and my adrenals and my cortisol was all messed up. I had to do a quick caffeine break. But I think that most of the stress was actually coming from two workouts a day, mental stress, trying to work, not eating enough.

Dustin: Yeah.

Hana: Not eating enough is probably the biggest issue.

Dustin: Yeah that's huge.

Hana: But I'm all for coffee I drink it all day.

Dustin: How much do you drink in a day?

Hana: I'll do, so I got myself it's cheap but I got myself a little cold brew kit from Amazon so I'm making my own cold brew.

Dustin: They're great, yeah.

Hana: So I'll get up I'll have a cold brew, go to the gym. Get to work and sometimes I'll get Starbucks I'm sorry.

Dustin: No that's fine we go to Starbucks too. It was one of the first places we go. In and out was first.

Jeff: It happens. You know what you're getting when you walk in, you know?

Hana: In and out dispensary, yeah.

Dustin: And then Starbucks, it's okay.

Hana: Yep.

Dustin: We all do it.

Hana: Okay cool thank you. I walked into Loring one day with a Starbucks in my hand and Rob who happened to be there, helping us out. You know him [inaudible]? He's got a beard he's a really nice guy. He does seminars and stuff. But anyways-

Dustin: I don't think I've met him.

Hana: He's an expert on Loring roasters and I walked in with a Starbucks and I tried to put it behind my back really quick and he's like I saw that green straw. I'm like oh, I'm so sorry.

Dustin: Oh, man. It's a weird viewpoint to take. I think even Sheetz coffee is good.

Hana: He was like cool about it, but he was like I see you.

Dustin: Yeah.

Hana: Yeah I'll do Starbucks and then depending on how work is going I'll have to do a little more. We have a shitty little Keurig with Kahlua coffee pods in there. At my new job we're not coffee snobs.

Dustin: Well I'll have to send you some Death Wish.

Hana: Yeah that'd be awesome.

Jeff: Yeah.

Hana: They would love it.

Dustin: So where you at now?

Hana: so I went from wine to coffee to pizza.

Dustin: Pizza? It's not normal pizza though.

Hana: It's not normal pizza no, no. So I found this company as a young fitness competitor a few years ago. They came to me on Instagram and they were like hey have you tried our product yet because it's like a healthy low carb version of basically your junky pizza. So they were a fresh startup, just a couple people in the office and they were starting to hit the fitness demographic.

Dustin: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Hana: Which made sense. I took a look at them and I said well you guys look pretty new do you need some help with your marketing 'cause I can maybe help you as a consultant on the side. So I've been helping them out. It's called The Real Good Food Company. I've been helping them out as a consultant for a couple of years and then I just took the full time job doing their marketing.

Dustin: Wow, nice.

Hana: It's super cool so we do everything is frozen. We do pizza enchiladas. We just launched cauliflower pizza because everyone's got to do cauliflower pizza.

Dustin: I love cauliflower pizza. I'm sorry I love it.

Hana: Yeah, yeah and this one's pretty cool because it really is just cauliflower egg and cheese to bind it.

Dustin: Oh, nice.

Hana: But a lot of cauliflower pizza's are actually packed with wheat and flour and corn or whatever. So this company focuses on keeping carbs truly low so we've gone after keto people.

Dustin: Yeah.

Hana: Even diabetics.

Jeff: That makes sense.

Hana: Just your general people who need to lose weight, want to eat healthy. So it's been fun. I get to eat pizza everyday.

Dustin: Now there's a pizza that you make and I could be wrong but I've been telling everybody this because I was blown away that the crust is made out of chicken?

Hana: Yeah, yeah.

Dustin: How does that happen?

Hana: I know it sounds weird but it works. So it's chicken breast and Parmesan and just the way that it's made, I'm actually going to the plant tomorrow for the first time to see how it's done. I know in my head how it's done but now I get to see it done right in front of me. So it's packed together and then when it's baked it works, the crust it holds up. Then it's got whatever toppings we do supreme and pepperoni.

Dustin: It's so strange, I got to try that.

Hana: I'll send you guys some.

Dustin: Okay, cool, awesome.

Jeff: Do you still compete?

Hana: No so I'm still tracking my food, I'm still working out a lot. But I'm in what's called an off season.

Jeff: Okay.

Hana: This is like an infinite off season because I don't know if it has an end.

Dustin: That's like my jiu jitsu I totally get it.

Hana: Oh, we got to talk about jiu jitsu I just started, yeah.

Dustin: We were just with Liz [inaudible] from the tenth planet down in San Diego so we can talk about that.

Hana: Yeah very cool. You guys need to talk to Eddie, whew.

Dustin: Yes we do that would be great. Eddie Bravo.

Jeff: I figured. I wasn't thinking about any money.

Dustin: I don't know if you were totally in the dark there.

Hana: That works too. Be prepared if you do a podcast with him just be prepared it's going to be like three to four hours long.

Dustin: That's fine.

Hana: It's going to be awesome and you're going to learn all about what's happening the government what's really happening.

Dustin: We can talk about flat earth.

Hana: He's on this new shit too it's pretty cool.

Dustin: Oh, boy, oh, boy.

Hana: But yeah so I'm still doing it but I just put on a little bit of weight, a little bit of fat which women should have.

Dustin: Yeah.

Hana: It's really hard to be that lean for that long.

Dustin: Yeah it's unhealthy right?

Hana: Yeah it's not good for our hormones.

Dustin: It's probably not good for performance if you want to go to the gym and actually like-

Hana: It's not sustainable and I just took a new job and I'm the Vice President of marketing and I want to kick ass at that job so I can't have that brain fog that comes with not eating any food.

Dustin: Right.

Jeff: And you get pizza all the time so.

Hana: I know it's awesome.

Dustin: Yeah but it's low carb pizza you're good.

Jeff: That's true, that's true, that's true. What drew you to competing in the first place?

Hana: Let's see, so I started lifting weights when I was actually with a guy and a bad relationship and I needed an outlet, I needed something to go do by myself and I was going to the gym but just I would get on the treadmill, I was bored. I just didn't feel, I think I wanted to feel like a badass and my dad growing up my dad had always told me that women should lift weights and he was like don't get on the treadmill go into the weight room and you're not going to get big and bulky.

Dustin: There's so much stigma behind that too.

Hana: Yeah.

Dustin: If I lift weights I'm going to get big.

Hana: Yeah.

Dustin: Hasn't worked for me.

Hana: And my dad lifted, yeah. Yeah, hasn't really worked for me. But he would always tell me that women should lift and finally I had to do it on my own because I'm stubborn. So I found a super beginner program on bodybuilding.com because I was just curious and I started lifting in this tiny gym in San Francisco because there was no one there so I felt like I wasn't going to embarrass myself.

Jeff: Comfortable yep, yep.

Hana: I started lifting and I started getting really good results I think because it was a shock to my body. So after I think less than a year I went to a competition just out of curiosity in Sacramento and I'm walking around and my now coach looked at me and she was like do you compete? I was like no, she was like I think you could. I'm like okay. So then a couple weeks later I competed for the first time and then it just snowballs.

Jeff: And now you've won competitions before?

Hana: Yeah. I won my first one which was weird. So apparently I was doing something right. But again that first cut, first couple years of lifting I made big changes to my body without really having to use any extremes. I tweaked my diet and started lifting weights and it worked. So then you go to the national level and when you go to nationals the goal is to get your pro card. So if you win a national show now you're a pro and now you compete in the IFBB, the international federation of body building and you're going up against the pros and then there's a chance to win a little bit of money, but this is not a job. It's actually really expensive.

Jeff: Wow, why do it then?

Hana: That's the question that I've been asking lately and that's why I've been not doing it for a couple of years.

Dustin: Yeah.

Hana: So yeah I mean you have to have a really strong why and I've talked to other girls why are you going after your pro card and why are you putting your body through this and some have a really good reason? Just great, I want to prove something to myself or I had a baby and I need to get on the stage and show that I can do this. But I did it a couple of times and then my why went away and my priority shifted to my career. This is the time I don't have kids, this is the time for me to be building my career.

Dustin: Yeah. I mean that makes sense.

Jeff: Do you still coach at all?

Hana: A couple of girls and I'm really working under my coach, Jami DeBernard she's like figure olympian she was on the big stage. She is the expert so I rely on her for a lot. For that guidance and then I help a couple of girls out.

Dustin: That's cool.

Jeff: That's very, very cool.

Dustin: So now you're in the tenth planet jiu jitsu system. I see you rolling over there.

Hana: Yeah I'm new, I'm really fresh and I'm trying to fit it in and that's a challenge too. How do I balance it with lifting.

Dustin: Yep.

Hana: So basically in a day okay I want to do cardio, I want to lift, I want to do jiu jitsu and I want to get 10,000 steps in. How am I going to do all that shit?

Dustin: Wow.

Jeff: Good luck.

Hana: I'm not going to so now I'm having to figure out how I want to balance this.

Dustin: How's that been going for you so far?

Hana: It's tough, it's tough for me to not go to the gym. I feel, I think I almost feel a little bit of guilt when I'm not lifting. I've just been doing it for six years so logically I know that I don't actually have to go lift weights every single day and I probably shouldn't.

Dustin: Yeah.

Hana: But yeah but anyways I'm loving jiu jitsu. I always try to make the Saturday class the women's class with Donna, she's amazing. On the weeknights I'll try to hit a Tuesday or Wednesday class if I can. So I'll go to the beginner class at 7:30 and then at 8:30 the advanced class comes in. That's the one that Eddie teaches and I'll sit there and watch and listen which is really cool.

Dustin: Yeah I'm sure that's quite a lesson.

Hana: How long have you been doing it for?

Dustin: I was doing it for five or six years. I had a couple of moments where the injuries happened. I had a ligament tear in my knee. I messed up my big toe really bad. I've broken every finger you can think of and then it just got to a point where my neck and shoulder got so bad I think it's mostly from my rock and roll career of headbanging and probably giving myself whiplash probably 500 to 1000 times a year and I can't do it anymore because as soon as somebody tugs on my neck I'm feeling it for months.

Hana: That's funny, so Andy my boyfriend is dealing with neck issues right now.

Dustin: Yeah it's pretty common.

Hana: He's like well I've been headbanging for 20 years.

Jeff: Yeah right.

Dustin: Yeah.

Jeff: It hurts, it hurts.

Dustin: I'm sure I can go get that looked at and fixed and I probably will at some point.

Hana: Yeah.

Dustin: But at this point I've just gotten into weightlifting and I've fallen head over heels.

Hana: Yeah you love it I see you doing your deadlifts.

Dustin: Yeah I love it. Oh, god deadlifts are so primal.

Hana: Those are the best. They're so much fun.

Dustin: Yeah that's pretty much jiu jitsu was my outlet, I needed something primal to do like get back to my neanderthal DNA you know?

Hana: Yeah it's good for anyone to know how to wrestle. But I feel like it's such a dude thing to be able to just take someone down and choke them. I think any guy should be able to do that.

Dustin: Right, at least nowadays it's such a different world now, especially with jiu jitsu being some prominent. But yeah because once again I'm career focused and it was actually affecting my job because I was in pain all the time.

Hana: Oh, no.

Dustin: I couldn't even lift my arm for awhile and you know that jiu jitsu mentality of keep on rolling it'll heal itself kind of thing and that got to me too.

Hana: Were you training in the [inaudible]?

Dustin: I was doing everything. I was doing kickboxing, I was training mixed martial arts I was doing the whole nine.

Hana: Oh, geez.

Dustin: But you know it was fine when I was in my 20s and then injury after injury and then but that's why I got into weightlifting was because it got my body back together. I don't have the back problems I used to have. My shoulder's fine.

Hana: Really? Okay.

Dustin: I never went to the doctor for it but I lifted weights through it. That's probably a horrible thing, but.

Hana: That's probably-

Jeff: Yeah, kinda.

Hana: You're like everything hurts, I'll just do some deadlifts.

Dustin: And it worked, what do you know?

Hana: You pull sumo right?

Dustin: I mix it up now. I started using trap bar so I started lifting a little traditional that way and I'm finding that you used to lift sumo.

Hana: I used to, I switched to conventional.

Dustin: Is there a reason for that? Everybody gives me shit for sumo and I'm so used to it I don't fully understand.

Hana: I mean I love sumo and I have strong legs. My legs are super dominant.

Dustin: That's why I do it I was a cyclist, I was a skier, I was a snowboarder, everything is around it. I was a track runner it's all in my legs so that's why I started.

Hana: If you got legs and glutes that can fire and your hips can handle it I love sumo. But I went from working out completely by myself in a health club in San Francisco to actually working out at a powerlifting gym. They opened one if you're ever in the area it's like an hour north of San Francisco it's awesome, it's called chalk it up and it is-

Dustin: Yeah I've seen you post from there.

Hana: Yeah. It's such a cool place and they're really supportive. So as soon as I started lifting there they started helping me and I would be like hey can you take a look at this for a second. I realized that there were issues with my sumo form and so my knees were falling in and I tried to fix it and after a couple of weeks I wasn't really succeeding in fixing it so then one of the owners was like why don't you try pulling conventional? I thought that I couldn't because I thought my arms weren't long enough. But we fixed something where I drop my hips a little bit.

Dustin: Yep.

Hana: So I am able to lock my lats and I am able to not hunch.

Dustin: Yeah.

Hana: Once I pulled conventional with the right form a couple of times I was like I don't know if I can ever go back.

Dustin: Hm, interesting.

Hana: I mean I still love sumo because a sumo deadlift is that's my first big lift I ever did.

Dustin: Yeah, same.

Hana: I was a bikini girl and so bikinis division which I compete in which is the smallest and muscularity and these girls typically don't lift like powerlifters.

Dustin: Right.

Hana: Because we're not really trying to put on that kind of size.

Dustin: Right.

Hana: So for a couple of years doing these shows I was just doing air squats and kickbacks and fitness girl workouts, like Instagram girl workouts, you know?

Dustin: Yeah.

Hana: Then finally I was like I'm going to do some deadlifts and not tell my coach and I started pulling sumo and was like this is so fun.

Dustin: Yeah.

Hana: I felt so powerful and it actually didn't hurt my physique at all and I actually think that it made my physique better.

Dustin: Yeah I would imagine it would.

Hana: I mean big lifts are going to affect people differently and I think it depends on how much you're eating and are you doing steroids, whatever.

Dustin: Yeah.

Hana: But I think that those power lifting lifts work really well with my body.

Dustin: How well has that translated into jiu jitsu 'cause that's something I haven't really gotten to dive into is now using my, of course I've only been doing it for about a year.

Hana: Yeah.

Dustin: So I'm not that deep into it but I always wondered how that powerlifting transitions into a jiu jitsu movement.

Hana: Well mobility is going to be a problem.

Dustin: Yeah

Hana: So that's still a concern. There's stuff I can't do. A guillotine is really hard for me because I have muscle on my shoulder and it kills my front delt and I see these other girls who don't really lift and don't really have anything here and they're able to just, it's super easy.

Dustin: Yeah.

Hana: So I have to work extra hard on mobility and my glutes are always tight because I'm always wanting to train glutes and hamstrings and now my favorite lift is a hip thrust.

Dustin: Yep.

Hana: So getting into rubber guard, do you train at a tenth planet?

Dustin: No, but I know-

Hana: Oh, so you know, you know the lingo.

Dustin: Yeah it's how I blew out my knee was fucking around with rubber guard and stuff like that.

Hana: Yeah I can see that happening and-

Dustin: And it was probably because I don't have somebody who knew how to do that telling me what to do. I was watching mastering the system.

Hana: You were like I'm going to do it.

Dustin: Yeah and my coach was standing over me being like dude you're going to fuck your knee up and then I had somebody in a [inaudible] during a tournament and they just lurched forward and my LCL tore and it was-

Hana: I can see that happening so easily in jiu jitsu.

Dustin: It's right there and you're so compromised and-

Hana: Yeah you're always twisted up like a pretzel so then it's like you move a centimeter and something's going to happen.

Dustin: And I'm not a very big guy. At the time I was 145 pounds so I was just getting smashed and torn apart and it was not fun for me.

Hana: No, no.

Dustin: And I don't have a wrestling background.

Hana: So you were just starting from scratch.

Dustin: I was starting from scratch.

Hana: That's me too.

Dustin: I had a karate background so my hips were flexible.

Hana: That's good.

Dustin: So that's why I started messing with the rubber guard stuff because I was working from my guard so much. My triangle was my best move by far. I could get anybody in a triangle because I can get my legs behind my head, that's not a problem.

Hana: Okay. But mobility is like-

Dustin: But ultimately my demise was over flexibility and I think that's what was happening with my shoulder and stuff like that because I was going in those guillotines because I was getting Americana lock on my arm and I'm not tapping because it's not really hurting at the time. That wear and tear like I said as a 30 something year old dude it starts to add up.

Hana: We don't recover the same. I'm 32 now, yeah I know what you're talking about. I'm at that point where I'm such a noob in jiu jitsu that I'm pretty tap happy. So as soon as someone's doing something I'm like ugh.

Dustin: No, no I don't know what's happening here, tap.

Hana: So I got to, I have to find that balance between not letting it go too long-

Dustin: You know it's way better to tap. It's way better it's like what are you trying to win anyway and I think a lot of dudes get caught up in the tough guy mentality. It's tap or nap bro and it's like get out of here.

Hana: Yeah but yeah mobility is the biggest issue. But when I was curious about it because I had an ex who trained jiu jitsu and it was his thing and I didn't get the vibe that he wanted me to train so now I moved down here and I'm like I'm going to do it. So I walked in and Eddie was there and he looked me up and down and he was like you got some muscle, but you're small. You can hang. I was like okay.

Dustin: Wow, okay.

Hana: Eddie Bravo said I can hang. I'm going to hang.

Dustin: Right.

Hana: So I think he was saying being compact but having strength is really good and he said a lot of the time women will come to tenth planet and they'll have no muscle on them and he'll say you actually need to go and do some sort of a program and then come back.

Dustin: Yeah he's been an advocate for lifting. He said in his career that he didn't really see hitting success until he went and started doing some lifting and gained a little bit of weight.

Hana: Yeah.

Dustin: I've heard him say that a couple of times. Now in this world of fitness and health and everything as far as that goes, there's so much information out there and it's hard to tell what actually works and what is just a bunch more jargon where somebody is actually trying to make a buck. How do you tell the difference between one or the other?

Hana: It's so hard and luckily I work in marketing so I can see through a lot of this bullshit.

Dustin: Yeah, yeah.

Hana: But it's really difficult and there's good people on both sides of every argument in this world. Like I don't know if you saw that today or yesterday Joe Rogan was tweeting like hey I'm going to start having debates on my podcast because there's too many-

Dustin: Oh, interesting.

Hana: Yeah he was apologetic about it. He was like I'll have someone on and then everyone thinks I'm on that side.

Dustin: Yeah he said something like I'm too stupid to debate them. I'm just letting them have their message.

Hana: Yeah so he's going to start, you know Lane Norton?

Dustin: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jeff: I don't.

Hana: Yeah so Lane big time powerlifter big pioneer and advocate in the flexible dieting world. He will argue about sugar not having a horrible effect on you and carbs and-

Dustin: What does that mean by the way flexible dieting?

Hana: So flexible dieting is literally just eating anything to hit your x amount of calories per day. So if I'm allowed to hit 1,800 calories I can go to In and Out I might have to make some shitty choices for the rest of the day. I might have to eat a salad or have some egg whites because I already wasted a lot of calories on In and Out but it's all about those kinds of consequences and choices.

Dustin: Yeah.

Hana: There's definitely, there's basically the clean eating community and then there's flexible dieters and they've gone at it for a long time.

Dustin: Yeah.

Hana: A really clean eater will say you can't just eat anything and no a calorie is not just a calorie. Lane Norton I don't know exactly where he stands these days but a flexible dieter, a really hardcore one will say I'll eat whatever I want to hit those calories. I land right in the middle because I do believe in micronutrients and I do believe in putting good shit in your body.

Dustin: Yeah.

Hana: And but I also believe in everything in moderation. So I've got ice cream in the freezer and I've got some fun stuff in the fridge.

Dustin: Yeah.

Hana: I have cinnabon cereal which is really good. But um, it's great. But I also have a fridge full of vegetables and that's what I try to prioritize.

Dustin: Yeah. But do you calorie count then?

Hana: But I do, yeah. So I use an app and I have my macro goals so my carbs, proteins, fats.

Dustin: Yep.

Hana: I have a number everyday that I try to hit. If I want to cut a little bit I'll cut those numbers back. If I want to put on a little bit of size I'll bump my numbers up a little bit. If I am concerned about my hormone health I'll give myself some more fats. So yes, right now I've just entered into a casual cutting phase. So I cut back a little bit, mainly on carbs. But everyday I go into my app and now it's easier. A lot of people are like okay I don't want to be in an app all day. I don't want to have to track every bit I take.

Dustin: Yeah I'm so intimidated by that. I don't want to track all that.

Hana: It sucks in the beginning but after a couple of months it's so quick and now I can actually go a whole day and I know what's in my food and so that's called intuitive eating.

Dustin: Yeah.

Hana: You're being mindful, you can look at a plate and be like that's got about 50 grams of carbs and about this much protein and then you can go in later and add it. So it depends on how hardcore you are. If you're getting ready for a bodybuilding show everything has to be perfect, of course. But if you're trying to gauge where you're at, trying to put on... a lot of guys it's like they say they want to put on size and I bet you're not eating enough. So track your food and see where you're at and a lot of the time a friend will come to me and he'll be like, oh, I didn't realize I was eating 1,600 calories. I'm like I'm eating more than you.

Jeff: Yeah.

Dustin: Yeah.

Hana: You need to set your goals in that app and eat whatever, 300 grams of carbs or you know everyone is different everyone eats different things.

Dustin: I've had not so much luck but I probably should track that a little bit. But I've had moments where it's like okay I'm going to try to put on size, I'm going to eat everything. It doesn't work not a pound, not one pound it's crazy and I'll do it for months. I'll go the other way where it's like a trip like this we're not eating at all. It's insane we're just going from place to place to place.

Hana: Yeah you're busy.

Dustin: Eating in between but it's like my weight does not fluctuate at all.

Hana: Kind of a blessing and a curse I guess.

Dustin: Yeah, I don't know. I guess it's a curse because at this point I'm powerlifting and I want to get bigger. But I guess the way to approach that would be to actually track that and try to come up with consistence.

Hana: It would be good to see how much you are actually eating because you might be surprisingly under eating and you could start to incorporate more calorie dense foods. So in lieu of maybe a big plate of veggies and steak maybe a little bit of veggies and something packed with carbs like a white rice or something like that.

Dustin: Interesting.

Hana: Yeah it's a lot of the time guys are not eating enough and also it's hard because we're all comparing ourselves to people on Instagram or whatever. Or friends, or people at the gym and a good amount of the time those people aren't natural and we're looking at something that is not even attainable without drugs.

Dustin: Right. That's something that you're always good at dispelling and I think that's what attracted me to you at first is that you're not caught up in all that bullshit and you're really spreading a positive self image information out there.

Hana: Thanks, I try.

Dustin: I think that's super important because there is so much unrealistic stuff out in the Instagram world and it's pretty tough especially anybody who has any disorders as far as self image goes.

Hana: Yeah and these girls and I wanted to be transparent after being in the industry for a couple of years because I've been that girl, I've been that naïve 24 year old.

Dustin: And I think you need to go there and actually have a good idea of how to approach that in the end.

Hana: Yeah I thought that everyone was great and that there weren't bad people and that no one was doing steroids and that everything was fine and dandy and then I got into it. Fitness has got to be the dirtiest industry. It's got to be.

Dustin: Really, really?

Hana: Yeah.

Dustin: I haven't gotten in deep enough.

Hana: Yeah it's interesting. There's porn stars, there's people doing a lot of things to make a buck. There's people doing things to make a buck because steroids are so expensive which is sad and I feel for those people because there's a lot of people chasing something and never really happy. They're not happy with their body, they're not happy with their placing in a show. So I see some sadness there. For the most part I've only worked with and met really awesome people.

Dustin: Yeah.

Hana: So I'm really happy with it, I've made some really good friends. But there's weird stuff. So I just try to stay out of it.

Dustin: Yeah which is smart.

Jeff: It's very smart.

Dustin: it's tough. What would you say to somebody who deals with that body issue and how to subvert all of that information out there.

Hana: Hm, you've got to keep the right people close. Even if you don't know too much about the industry or about what's really going on with these people on Instagram. If you don't know about steroids you know, you've got to be surrounded by some people who can help snap you out of it. I was back stage at my first pro show and I was one of the smaller girls and I was sitting back there and watching these girls walk by and even bikini girls even in my division their delts are just popping and they were shredded to the point of veins on their abs.

Dustin: It looks unreal I'm like how does that happen?

Hana: I'm sitting there looking and my coach looked at me and she was like okay but you know what they're doing right? You're not doing what they're doing. She snapped me out of it and it's okay that people want to use drugs like I really don't care because I chose the industry.

Dustin: Right.

Hana: I'm not going to complain because if I'm going to complain why don't I do something else, go do another sport or go compete in the naturals. But, I have to stay realistic about it and it's nice to have a coach that can snap me out of it and say okay but I'm going to list the five things that that girl's taking that are the reason why she looks like that. So stay realistic.

Dustin: Yeah.

Hana: So I mean have good people around you and I guess educate yourself because these naïve girls who I talk to I'm like you got to do some research on what's really going on. But it's hard and I've gained most of my confidence in the past few years from A, competing. Stepping on stage in a bikini is really weird, especially for a tomboy. I would never have thought that I would do that.

Dustin: Yeah.

Hana: But so that kind of put me in touch with my feminine side. But really just lifting weights and just going to the gym alone and putting in headphones and following a program and trying to lift more every single time. That's really given me confidence.

Dustin: Yeah.

Jeff: That's awesome. So through all of this, through your journey through fitness and also your journey through the marketing side of it and everything, what fuels you to keep doing it? What fuels you to keep going and pursuing these things?

Hana: I don't really know how not to.

Jeff: That's actually a great answer.

Hana: I was thinking the other night I was like it would be cool if I just went home after work at 6 p.m. and watched TV and I was thinking what would that be like? It made me uncomfortable because I think that I'd sit down and I'd be like well okay the gym's open until 9 I've got some stuff... I should probably clean my house. There's work I need to do. So I don't know I just-

Jeff: You have to.

Hana: I think I have high expectations of myself too, yeah. But that can be a problem.

Dustin: There is a line there, right?

Hana: I stretched myself too thin before where I was competing, working a full time job, doing marketing consulting on the side, trying to have a relationship and just stretching myself.

Dustin: I always think oh, I can handle it.

Hana: Then you burn out. Have you ever?

Dustin: For sure.

Hana: Yeah.

Dustin: Definitely starting to feel that at the end of this a little bit. It's like 18 interviews we'll be alright.

Hana: Yeah it's funny you always say yeah I can do that.

Dustin: But you know what, in the end we always-

Hana: It always works out.

Jeff: We make it.

Dustin: I'm still having fun every single day that we're out here.

Hana: You just have to be able to go home and recharge.

Dustin: And decompress, yeah for sure..

Jeff: For somebody out there who wants to start getting into weightlifting and weight training-

Dustin: Jeff's asking for a friend.

Hana: Just a hypothetical. Totally hypothetical.

Jeff: What's the best advice you can give them for starting that? I guess the way I could phrase it is what's the smartest way to get into that industry?

Hana: Yeah. I would, I'd seek out structure. So a structured workout program and a structured, but not extremely restrictive diet plan.

Jeff: Yeah.

Hana: The diet plan can either be literally a meal plan like eat these foods, or it can be flexible dieting like hey use this app and track your food and just hit these calories because both are really doing the same thing. A meal plan is getting you to x amount of calories, tracking your food is getting you there too. So structure and diet and structure in the program, not just because that's going to give you results, but because that holds us accountable and a lot of people really crave that structure.

Dustin: It's habit building.

Hana: Yeah, yeah. If you tell someone, well just go to the gym. They're like I don't know what to do and then they go in there and it's really intimidating.

Dustin: Yep.

Hana: Especially for a girl.

Dustin: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Hana: Maybe pick up a couple of weights, but then you're just aimless.

Dustin: Yeah.

Hana: So have a program literally printed out if you need to or have it on your phone. I used Jamie Eason's program on bodybuilding.com super beginner. Now I have a program that my coach writes that's on my phone. We have our own app which is really cool.

Jeff: That's awesome.

Hana: But-

Jeff: Is that accessible to other people or is that just for your team?

Hana: Only if you're on our team and the team is called Fitbody Fusion I got to drop that.

Jeff: Okay, shout out!

Hana: But yeah that structure it'll hold you accountable.

Jeff: And it's safer too 'cause you're not just going in there and going ham and trying to do everything and eat everything or shock your body or whatever.

Hana: I hate it, I hate to see friends that are so discouraged because they really are trying but they don't really know what they're doing and I was there and it sucks 'cause you're like I feel like I'm trying and nothing is happening.

Jeff: Yeah.

Hana: So that's why eventually I did hire a coach when I was really serious about actually competing. I would say having a coach is necessary if you're going to compete.

Dustin: Right.

Hana: But yeah, just having that guidance programs. Being able to see that last week you deadlifted 200 pounds and this week you lifted 210.

Dustin: Yeah.

Jeff: Yeah.

Hana: That's pretty cool too. So tracking that.

Dustin: Prove positive for sure.

Hana: Yeah I think I had a notepad. I think I saw that Dana Lynn Bailey had a journal and so I had a journal too and I would write down my workout every week or everyday and then I would write down how much I lifted and then week over week I would compare. So I would be able to see progress.

Dustin: Yes.

Hana: I think progress, even a little bit of progress is really motivating for people.

Jeff: Yeah, totally.

Hana: So setting attainable goals, not ridiculous goals but little ones that you can actually reach.

Jeff: Yeah, I think that-

Dustin: I got to say the most demoralizing thing though is seeing regress when you're working extremely hard. How would you say, because I'm sure you've dealt with that too.

Hana: Yeah like from an injury or something.

Dustin: I don't know for me I just an inconsistent schedule.

Hana: Yeah.

Dustin: I'm super busy with the podcast sometimes I don't always get to the gym and it's like that 400 pound deadlift quickly turned into a 350 pound deadlift again and it's like shit, it's very demoralizing, I don't know.

Hana: Yeah that sucks. You've got to get to that mind state where instead of those setbacks making you want to sit back and quit, somehow they push you to get back to the 400 pound deadlift and I don't know because I've had those workouts where I'm pissed.

Dustin: Yeah you're always going to have a bad day. It's tough.

Hana: Yeah so I mean gym partners or I loved working out at that powerlifting gym because I would say you guys last week I lifted this much what's happening and they would have words of wisdom because they're like they've been there they've competed.

Dustin: Yeah.

Jeff: Yeah, yep.

Hana: They've all been through injuries and surgeries and they would always have really good words of wisdom for me. So a gym like that is really awesome but we can't all... now I'm just at a Golds I have no one to talk to. I'm at a Golds in Hollywood which is nuts.

Dustin: Oh, man. That's going to be a scene.

Hana: Yeah it really is, it's like a night club basically.

Jeff: Oh, great.

Hana: Now I'm actually, I'm trying to work on my cardio right now. I'm trying to work on running.

Dustin: Nice.

Hana: Well that sucks. That really sucks.

Jeff: Yeah I always say I always run from two things, cops and monsters, that's it.

Hana: Yeah that's perfect.

Jeff: It's true.

Hana: Yeah so I'm working but I feel like it's embarrassing sometimes.

Jeff: Well it's inspiring to follow your journey, it really is.

Hana: Oh, thanks.

Jeff: And for our listenership and our viewership out there what is the best way for them to follow you? Would it be Instagram or?

Hana: Yeah Instagram so it's Hana_devore so it's H-A-N-A, underscore, D-E-V-O-R-E.

Jeff: Got that right here.

Hana: And I don't do twitter because that seems like a crazy place.

Jeff: It's crazy.

Dustin: I don't do it either.

Jeff: It's a crazy place.

Hana: I want to have, I want to keep my sanity.

Jeff: Yeah.

Dustin: Jeff keeps on telling me I need to Twitter more.

Jeff: Eh, I mean I do it for work.

Dustin: Yeah.

Jeff: But I mean, yeah.

Hana: Do you run the Death Wish run?

Jeff: No I help run the Death Wish one. So, it is a crazy place, it's crazy. Twitter is like the mad max of social media.

Hana: I can't. Instagram is already nutty enough.

Jeff: Yeah it really is.

Hana: So yeah Instagram is great and check out Real Good Foods of course.

Jeff: Yes of course and I'll put that in this episode too. I can't thank you enough for welcoming us.

Hana: No thank you guys, yeah thanks for coming over.

Dustin: I'm glad we could make this happen.

Jeff: Yeah.

Hana: I don't think I've ever hung out on my deck before. Like I bought this patio furniture, I moved here a couple of months ago and I don't know that I've actually sat down here before.

Dustin: Well I'm glad we can break it in for you.

Hana: So that's kind of cool.

Jeff: Yeah, excellent. Well thanks so much.

Hana: Yeah of course.

Dustin: Cheers thank you.

Hana: Thank you guys.

Speaker 4: This has been fumed by Deathcast, a Death Wish coffee company podcast production. Thanks for listening.